From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.science.mathematics.categories/9120 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: David Roberts Newsgroups: gmane.science.mathematics.categories Subject: Re: Weighted limits Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 21:03:19 +1030 Message-ID: References: <88023426-5BA7-4005-ACB0-D073AF38B770@wanadoo.fr> Reply-To: David Roberts NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1487263685 22582 195.159.176.226 (16 Feb 2017 16:48:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 16:48:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: John Power , Categories To: Jean Benabou Original-X-From: majordomo@mlist.mta.ca Thu Feb 16 17:47:59 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: gsmc-categories@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from smtp2.mta.ca ([198.164.44.40]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cePDn-0005CZ-4k for gsmc-categories@m.gmane.org; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 17:47:55 +0100 Original-Received: from mlist.mta.ca ([138.73.1.63]:44501) by smtp2.mta.ca with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1cePDT-0004hE-Hl; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 12:47:35 -0400 Original-Received: from majordomo by mlist.mta.ca with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cePCv-0002Hp-Vp for categories-list@mlist.mta.ca; Thu, 16 Feb 2017 12:47:01 -0400 In-Reply-To: <88023426-5BA7-4005-ACB0-D073AF38B770@wanadoo.fr> Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.science.mathematics.categories:9120 Archived-At: Dear Jean, (apologies for this, and any future, slow replies. The necessities of life take up a lot of my time at the moment) My approach below is pedestrian, but I hope clear. Strict inverters are PIE-limits. Thus they can be computed in Cat(S) once we know it has each of products, inserters, equifers -- in fact just the latter two, in a rather straightforward way, using no more than two of each. To quote the nLab, "first we insert a 2-morphism b going in the opposite direction from a, then we equify ba and ab with identities." (this quote may be likewise borrowed from either Kelly or Street) Let as assume S has finite limits throughout. For what it's worth, products obviously exist in Cat(S). Note that For X a category in S, and a subobject U >--> Obj(X), we can build the full subcategory X[U] of X on U (as an object of Cat(S)) using only finite limits in S. To build the equifer of a,b: f =3D> g: X --> Y, we only need the equaliser E in S of the component maps a,b: Obj(X) --> Arr(Y), and then the equifer is the inclusion X[E] --> X of the full subcategory on the subobject E. Thus we are reduced to building inserters, which is the real meat of the problem, as inserters are not equivalent to any conical 2-limit. Consider a diagram f,g: X --> Y in Cat(S). The inserter of this diagram is (the inclusion of) a subcategory Ins(f,g) of X. We can compute the object Ins(f,g)_0 of objects of the inserter as the pullback of Obj(X) -- (f,g) --> Obj(Y) x Obj(Y) <---- (s,t) ---- Arr(Y) in S. Then the inserter is a wide subcategory of X[ Ins(f,g)_0 ] (itself a full subcategory of X). Note that there is a map a: Ins(f,g)_0 ---> Arr(Y) which will be the component map of the universal natural transformation we are inserting. The arrows of Ins(f,g) are the largest subobject Ins(f,g)_1 --> Arr(X) such that a is natural with respect to such arrows. This can be defined by an equaliser in S. Thus we can construct, using solely finite limits in S, (products,) equifiers and inserters, and hence inverters, in Cat(S). One could perhaps examine this proof more closely to see what kind of internal categories in non-finitely-complete S are necessary for it to work (eg those such that (s,t) belong to a class of which all pullbacks exist, and are again in the class etc). This perhaps would fit with your general philosophy on generalising fibration technology. I hope this answers your qualms, and apologies for being slightly telegraphic in my description. Best regards, David PS I regret we did not have the chance to meet at Topos =C3=A0 l'IH=C3=89S = in 2015. Perhaps one day... On 15 February 2017 at 20:09, Jean Benabou wrote: > Dear John, > > Thank you for your mail and the precisions you give in it, but I'm not > interested, for the time being, in general questions about 2-categories. > Let me repeat precisely my question: If S is a category with finite lim= its > and Cat(S) is the 2-category of internal categories of S, under which > condition does Cat(S) have strict inverters? > Can you, or anybody give a precise answer? (Of course I know that Cat(S) = is > cotensored with 2) > . > David Roberts says that finite limits in S suffice. As I I said I don't > believe that. I'm perhaps wrong. In that case, could he, you, or anybody > tell me how to construct strict inverters when all I assume is that S has > finite limits? > > It is always a pleasure to hear from you. All the best , > > Jean > > > Le 15 f=C3=A9vr. 17 =C3=A0 08:41, John Power a =C3=A9crit : > > Dear Jean, > > Max wrote an expository paper which I believe was called "Elementary > Observations on 2-Categorical Limits" and was published in the Bulletin o= f > the Australian Mathematical Society I think around 1990. He would have ha= d a > discussion of inverters there. > > Strict inverters are a kind of strict weighted limit (see, for instance, > https://golem.ph.utexas.edu/category/2014/04/elementary_observations_on_2= ca.html) > and a 2-category has all strict weighted limits if it has all strict coni= cal > limits and all strict cotensors, as a 2-category is a Cat-enriched catego= ry. > So if one can prove that Cat(S) has strict conical limits and strict > cotensors, one can construct strict inverters by following the procedure = in > the link above. > > For strict cotensors, it suffices to prove that a 2-category has strict > cotensors with the arrow category. I believe that is straightforward for > Cat(S) if you follow the case of S =3D Set. > > Once again, it is always lovely to hear from you. > > All the best, > > John. > [For admin and other information see: http://www.mta.ca/~cat-dist/ ]