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From: Michael Barr <barr@triples.math.mcgill.ca>
To: categories@mta.ca
Subject: Re: Monoidal structure, take II
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 12:46:52 -0500 (EST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9903181245550.13498-100000@triples.math.mcgill.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <36F0E6ED.7EF7BB45@loria.fr>

I did not quite understand Francois' construction.  However, my first
reaction to a question like that is that it ought to be a homotopy.  So
I will say what a homotopy reduces to in this case and leave it to
Francois to decide if this is what he has.

I suspect that rather few people know what a simplicial homotopy is and,
of those, rather few have ever actually verified one.  I am in that
minority^2, so perhaps I tend to see them where they are not the most
natural, but I think it quite remarkable that they can arise where no
real topology (but some combinatorics) is present.

I have to begin by saying how a graph becomes a simplicial set.
Actually, that is a lie, since unless you are dealing with reflexive
graphs--that are equipped with a selected loop at each vertex--you will
only get a face complex.  But homotopies are still definable.  A
category is a simplicial set by taking for n-simplexes composable
n-tuples of arrows.  This doesn't work for graphs, since the "interior
faces" (all except the lowest and highest numbered) all depend on
composition.  But there is a face complex in which an n-simplex is
simply an n-simplex in the graph.  So a 2-simplex is a
triangle--obviously non-commutative and a 3-simplex is a tetrahedron and
so on.  You can describe a composable n-tuple in a category as
commutative n-simplex, so this isn't so different.  Now given this, if
f,g:  X --> Y are graph morphisms, what is a homotopy?  Well, write X as
d^0,d^1:  X_1 --> X_0 and similarly for Y. Then f consists of f_0:  X_0
--> Y_0 and f_1:  X_1 --> Y_1 giving a serially commutative square.
Just a homomtopy between functors turns out to be simply a natural
transformation, a homotopy in this case turns out to consist of a
function p_0:  X_0 --> Y_1 and a function p_1:  X_1 --> Y_1 such that
there
is a diagram (not, of course commutative; what a diagram does is specify
source and target) as follows.  In this diagram I assume x:  x^0 --> x^1
in X, and f(x):  y^0 --> y^1 and g(x):  z^0 --> z^1 in Y.
                            f(x)
                    y^0 -----------> y^1
                     | \              |
                     |  \             |
                     |   \            |
                     |    \           |
                     |     \          |
                     |      \         |
                     |       \        |
             p_0(x^0)|  p_1(x)\       |p_0(x^1)
                     |         \      |
                     |          \     |
                     |           \    |
                     |            \   |
                     |             \  |
                     |              \ |
                     v      g(x)     vv
                    z^0 -----------> z^1

So if this is what Francois was saying, then the answer is it a homotopy
of face complexes.  Of course, if you replaced X_1 by X_1 + X_0, you
would have a reflexive graph and I assume (I have not checked this) you
would then get a simplicial homotopy.

BTW, homotopies do not generally compose--and the ones described here do
not appear to either.  Categories are special because of their internal
composition.  It makes me wonder if the well-known failure of dinats to
compose could be related to this in some way.

Having seen Francois' clarification, I think this is exactly what he
had.

Michael



-------------------------------------------------------------------
History shows that the human mind, fed by constant accessions of
knowledge, periodically grows too large for its theoretical coverings, and
bursts them asunder to appear in new habiliments, as the feeding and
growing grub, at intervals, casts its too narrow skin and assumes
another... Truly the imago state of Man seems to be terribly distant, but
every moult is a step gained. 

- Charles Darwin, from "The Origin of Species"





  reply	other threads:[~1999-03-18 17:46 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 4+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
1999-03-18 11:43 Francois Lamarche
1999-03-18 17:46 ` Michael Barr [this message]
1999-03-18 18:40   ` and there is a topological connection too Francois Lamarche
1999-03-18 17:27 Monoidal structure, take II Marco Grandis

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