From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,NICE_REPLY_A,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 32050 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2021 18:15:15 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 16 Jul 2021 18:15:15 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id C4F859C7FD; Sat, 17 Jul 2021 04:15:14 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3CA49C7F1; Sat, 17 Jul 2021 04:15:09 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; secure) header.d=tnetconsulting.net header.i=@tnetconsulting.net header.b="FQI3RG1T"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 322759C7F1; Sat, 17 Jul 2021 04:15:08 +1000 (AEST) X-Greylist: delayed 753 seconds by postgrey-1.36 at minnie.tuhs.org; Sat, 17 Jul 2021 04:15:07 AEST Received: from tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net (tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net [45.33.28.24]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BC0A9C7F0 for ; Sat, 17 Jul 2021 04:15:07 +1000 (AEST) Received: from Contact-TNet-Consulting-Abuse-for-assistance by tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-3) with ESMTPSA id 16GI2Wlq019179 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 13:02:33 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=tnetconsulting.net; s=2019; t=1626458553; bh=PjpCFbAmegu2UVnfBMvCx4bA8z9CzVG8sEafCcuhgYU=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:Cc:Content-Disposition: Content-Language:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Date:From: In-Reply-To:Message-ID:MIME-Version:References:Reply-To: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Sender:Subject:To: User-Agent; b=FQI3RG1TfWAyhbeOQV2rmM8BuVxb5wHWFhjwi/SCVLxYE1sJY8F/MLugZN7FDuKOh phD9VxO/x53N1wrYejyvZnju5U7EQSPAjx+za0yCfGdKtjgLmTD3bfQZDNG19l6pa6 u4DhV23BiMSlHiQWJdz7GaZzy+Kp/FNSuyqndtQU= To: coff@minnie.tuhs.org References: Organization: TNet Consulting Message-ID: <0afc6119-2900-1e72-618a-004549234cb2@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 12:02:39 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [COFF] [TUHS] 386BSD released X-BeenThere: coff@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Computer Old Farts Forum List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , From: Grant Taylor via COFF Reply-To: Grant Taylor Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1030131899908802021==" Errors-To: coff-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "COFF" This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --===============1030131899908802021== Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms000507090806060106080002" This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms000507090806060106080002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 7/15/21 7:58 PM, Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > Requiring physical presence to get patches integrated.... doesn't=20 > scale. I believe I understand the spirit of what you are saying. However I=20 have a question: Was the need / requirement for your physical presence motivated by (a=20 lack of) technology? Or was it more an interview of you / your team to=20 determine if your contributions were desired or not? I see a huge=20 difference behind raw code and the team (trust ability / intentions)=20 behind the code. May people can do work required for a job remotely,=20 yet must apply and interview for said job in person. So, what was the real gate / blocker? Technology to accept the code?=20 Or meeting / getting to know the person / representative of the people=20 behind the code? > ... that is not what most people associate with the term "Open Source" = > today. I think this touches on the crux of the issue for me. Does the ability to see the source code (in and of itself) constitute a=20 license to use said source code (or compilations there of)? My opinion is that no, the ability to see the source code is not the=20 same thing as a license to use said source code. There are many=20 examples where visibility of source code and licensing to use it are two = completely independent things. There are many freely available programs with licenses to run them which = do not provide any access to source code. You probably only need to=20 look as far as your Downloads folder for an example of such software /=20 licenses. There are many freely available programs with licenses and source code.=20 The Linux kernel is a quintessential example. There are fewer examples of programs where you can see the source code=20 but do not have a license to run said program. I know that Microsoft=20 has made (parts of) Windows source code available to various=20 institutions. I'm confident that there are other examples. So to me, there are two circles with some overlap between them, forming=20 three broad categories that software can fall into. Closed Source / Open License Open License / Open Source Open Source / Closed License I believe that many people think of "Open Source" as being the middle=20 overlap where both the License and the Source are open. This may be=20 accurate more of the time than it is not. However I think that assuming = it to /always/ be the case is ... unsafe. After all, look at the terminology: Open /Source/. Emphasis on the=20 word "Source" as short for source code. Nothing about source code in=20 and of itself implies a /license/ to use it. Sure, there is quite=20 likely an ability to use the source code (if you have all of it). But=20 the ability to do something does not mean that it's proper or legal,=20 much less proper, to do so. --=20 Grant. . . . unix || die --------------ms000507090806060106080002 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC CzkwggUhMIIECaADAgECAhA/wgXwQl9mDHSg5enGHBeSMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMIGWMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJHQjEbMBkGA1UECBMSR3JlYXRlciBNYW5jaGVzdGVyMRAwDgYDVQQHEwdTYWxm b3JkMRgwFgYDVQQKEw9TZWN0aWdvIExpbWl0ZWQxPjA8BgNVBAMTNVNlY3RpZ28gUlNBIENs aWVudCBBdXRoZW50aWNhdGlvbiBhbmQgU2VjdXJlIEVtYWlsIENBMB4XDTIwMTExNjAwMDAw MFoXDTIxMTExNjIzNTk1OVowKzEpMCcGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYaZ3RheWxvckB0bmV0Y29uc3Vs dGluZy5uZXQwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQDM6cGNMlSUFPM3zVw+ VgSslz2QRtMj+FerQ0DpmgbhUzqm5hMRe0hMA2OBf41HDAeOV0RKcLx2+HozHlyQST2xagOX 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