From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [50.116.15.146]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48B7A2439B for ; Mon, 15 Jul 2024 21:39:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95AD3421A7; Tue, 16 Jul 2024 05:39:26 +1000 (AEST) Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 042EE42199 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2024 05:39:19 +1000 (AEST) Received: (qmail 68078 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2024 19:39:18 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=109ea66957ae6.k2407; bh=zMg5HQS9MGGB5S5NTOBQxK5jxmGeDRW+ggANaVfBTMw=; b=Q8+UPDUdcEEVW0Uz4k8/Nr3nqPkJJqDWi1nlmLPFWpgGR6EOiK3bBmCzEyHLDr5HX9jXKtyOflcap+2WIOzA3qDN93W0ec2TX809ARkRc4+fBZYqVEd9mVFsWPg9nPKt60GaE++BtmlGFLNW/Co5vci8T81IDeONmOhZNKPSfhwN7SRHjjunh3Xj2ce3ojkPPWi1EL7CcX5s9kVWLwQdAjbuNUZQVlLMKPZzRUKB8qb56WT9sPfchwyIW16BH7k7XjmNMwqGbn3ruLt4K01tsvbKIAQuQy6iiY4htQDvWvd9xPwefBsRxkcGQbWc8v2XDdPHdggTnRT+14TVlfUrpw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:cleverness; s=109ea66957ae6.k2407; bh=zMg5HQS9MGGB5S5NTOBQxK5jxmGeDRW+ggANaVfBTMw=; b=vcLgsuTGGZgpawkFnWHM49CKIlVTTduUliFjNBkEvHFti/h7BrJznq7B3mA1uoFQWI5Eo6NUCx3m0H9w+QM+2DmxxogT5u9Txvx+JZO+JrRpA+Romra6zsFTI8PkuHzD7uAWs7bxzMB+o5S4aWXTyWfGR5cFhbDKFttMxXDv7tHV19idMABlbX8u/LrkX8R+3mwgVFc1gwUFtHz5UNqIwJa2PUU0M7G+wlNx+x1qAIiSkfzdEKXIaHcNpTPB20LgM0swg+ZmqOIz7a/WbQvTYuMDGsiePjZofOZLZUuFO6i8Su2ux2y0PH4a7P5PmcSJovhXt9iT+AZFn2DDkwo87g== Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTPS (TLS1.3 ECDHE-RSA CHACHA20-POLY1305 AEAD) via TCP6; 15 Jul 2024 19:39:17 -0000 Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5828C8F9FBE0; Mon, 15 Jul 2024 15:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: 15 Jul 2024 15:39:16 -0400 Message-Id: <20240715193917.5828C8F9FBE0@ary.qy> From: "John Levine" To: coff@tuhs.org In-Reply-To: Organization: Taughannock Networks References: X-Headerized: yes Cleverness: minimal Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Message-ID-Hash: MHZGWWXNJ6ZQEMDTPOSD5LEOTSYZFEM3 X-Message-ID-Hash: MHZGWWXNJ6ZQEMDTPOSD5LEOTSYZFEM3 X-MailFrom: johnl@iecc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [COFF] Re: ancient macros, machine code translation,as mental architecture models List-Id: Computer Old Farts Forum Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: It appears that Douglas McIlroy said: >In 1959, ... >We never considered anything but recursive expansion, where macro >definitions can contain macro calls; thus the TX-0 model comes as quite a >surprise. We kept a modest stack of the state of each active macro >expansion. We certainly did not foresee that within a few years some >applications would need a 70-level stack! As the PDP-1 Macro imeplementation manual said about the macro feature: It is the weakest in that it is quite inflexible and does not incorporate any of the more significant improvements in assembler technology that have occurred since the logic was first written in 1957. The PDP-1 was not a very big machine, only 4K words and the only standard I/O device was paper tape, so no overlays or multiple passes. I can imagine that while they knew how to write a better macro processor, they didn't want to use up the memory it would have needed. Bitsavers has a bunch of memos about the TX-0. Memo 39 describes TX-0 assembler as of 1962, which had real macros that could insert arbitrary strings, as they show in an example on pages 10-11. https://bitsavers.org/pdf/mit/tx-0/memos/M-5001-39_MIDAS_Nov62.pdf There are earlier memos about MACRO in 1959 and 1961 which suggest a weaker macro facility but don't have details. R's, John