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* [COFF] Re: Safelights (was: "9 skills our grandkids won't have")
@ 2022-07-02  3:39 Dennis Boone
  2022-07-03  1:09 ` Dave Horsfall
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Dennis Boone @ 2022-07-02  3:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Computer Old Farts Followers

 > The youngsters these days wouldn't know what we're talking about, of
 > course...

Not about most of it.  Bet they do get dodging and burning, though.  The
terms are used in image editing programs.

De

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: Safelights (was: "9 skills our grandkids won't have")
  2022-07-02  3:39 [COFF] Re: Safelights (was: "9 skills our grandkids won't have") Dennis Boone
@ 2022-07-03  1:09 ` Dave Horsfall
  2022-07-03  9:49   ` Harald Arnesen
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Dave Horsfall @ 2022-07-03  1:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Computer Old Farts Followers

On Fri, 1 Jul 2022, Dennis Boone wrote:

> Not about most of it.  Bet they do get dodging and burning, though.  
> The terms are used in image editing programs.

How about solarising?  That's where you sort of expose the print to light 
part way through processing, to produce a sort of reverse image (I know 
it's a bit vague, but it's been yonks since I was involved).

-- Dave

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: Safelights (was: "9 skills our grandkids won't have")
  2022-07-03  1:09 ` Dave Horsfall
@ 2022-07-03  9:49   ` Harald Arnesen
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Harald Arnesen @ 2022-07-03  9:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: coff

Dave Horsfall [03/07/2022 03.09]:

> On Fri, 1 Jul 2022, Dennis Boone wrote:
> 
>> Not about most of it.  Bet they do get dodging and burning, though.  
>> The terms are used in image editing programs.
> 
> How about solarising?  That's where you sort of expose the print to light
> part way through processing, to produce a sort of reverse image (I know
> it's a bit vague, but it's been yonks since I was involved).

To nitpick, that is really the sabattier effect (after Armand Sabatier, 
so it should really be with just one 't').

Real solarisation is an extreme overexposure, the usual example is the 
sun appearing black.
-- 
Hilsen Harald
Слава Україні!

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: Safelights (was: "9 skills our grandkids won't have")
  2022-07-02  2:49               ` Dave Horsfall
@ 2022-07-06  9:00                 ` Peter Jeremy via COFF
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Peter Jeremy via COFF @ 2022-07-06  9:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dave Horsfall; +Cc: Computer Old Farts Followers

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On 2022-Jul-02 12:49:49 +1000, Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org> wrote:
>the yellow envelopes that came with every roll of Kodak colour slides 
>(which no longer seem to be able to be processed; I have a roll with 
>Halley's Comet on it).

Kodachrome processing ceased in 2010:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodachrome#Cessation_of_processing

-- 
Peter Jeremy

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* [COFF] Re: Safelights (was: "9 skills our grandkids won't have")
  2022-07-02  5:21           ` Adam Thornton
@ 2022-07-02  5:35             ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey @ 2022-07-02  5:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Adam Thornton; +Cc: COFF

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On Friday,  1 July 2022 at 22:21:49 -0700, Adam Thornton wrote:
>> On Jul 1, 2022, at 6:26 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Friday,  1 July 2022 at 17:57:35 -0700, Adam Thornton wrote:
>>> On Jul 1, 2022, at 5:08 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote:
>>>> On Friday,  1 July 2022 at 20:12:44 +0200, Harald Arnesen wrote:
>>>>> Except that we didn't use red light in our darkrooms at all, at least
>>>>> not from the 1970s and on. ...
>>>>
>>>> Correct.  I started darkroom work in 1964, and from the beginning we
>>>> used amber safelights.  I don't think red safelights have been used
>>>> since long before that.
>>>
>>> When I learned film photography in the mid 1980s the darkroom had
>>> red lights.  Of course it was a very old darkroom in a middle school,
>>> so I'm sure that _adequate_ darkrooms had better equipment.
>>
>> Hmm.  Any idea how old the equipment is?  I suppose you wouldn't
>> expect people to replace existing, functional equipment without good
>> reason.
>
> No idea at all how old it was.  I mean, a) I was a kid, and b) it
> was the first darkroom I'd ever seen so I had no basis of comparison.
> I'm sure it was at least one and maybe more generations of
> hand-me-down by the time I got to use it.  But, I mean, "good enough
> for middle school kids, and we got it for free" was probably good
> enough, right?

Yes, of course.  I was just curious.  But in the meantime many have
reported using red safelights, so the answer's not that relevant.

I dug back into my records, and found that I bought an OB (amber) and
3 (dark green, for panchro) safelight filter for the school darkroom
on 19 May 1965.  No mention of a red filter yet.  And
https://www.kodak.com/content/products-brochures/Film/Safelight-Recommendations.pdf
agrees with me that amber is the most appropriate colour for black and
white print paper.  I wonder why red safelights were so prevalent.

Greg
--
Sent from my desktop computer.
Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: Safelights (was: "9 skills our grandkids won't have")
  2022-07-02  1:26         ` [COFF] Safelights (was: "9 skills our grandkids won't have") Greg 'groggy' Lehey
  2022-07-02  2:24           ` [COFF] " Charles H. Sauer
@ 2022-07-02  5:21           ` Adam Thornton
  2022-07-02  5:35             ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Adam Thornton @ 2022-07-02  5:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey; +Cc: COFF

No idea at all how old it was.  I mean, a) I was a kid, and b) it was the first darkroom I'd ever seen so I had no basis of comparison.  I'm sure it was at least one and maybe more generations of hand-me-down by the time I got to use it.  But, I mean, "good enough for middle school kids, and we got it for free" was probably good enough, right?

Adam

> On Jul 1, 2022, at 6:26 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote:
> 
> On Friday,  1 July 2022 at 17:57:35 -0700, Adam Thornton wrote:
>> On Jul 1, 2022, at 5:08 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote:
>>> On Friday,  1 July 2022 at 20:12:44 +0200, Harald Arnesen wrote:
>>>> Except that we didn't use red light in our darkrooms at all, at least
>>>> not from the 1970s and on. ...
>>> 
>>> Correct.  I started darkroom work in 1964, and from the beginning we
>>> used amber safelights.  I don't think red safelights have been used
>>> since long before that.
>> 
>> When I learned film photography in the mid 1980s the darkroom had
>> red lights.  Of course it was a very old darkroom in a middle school,
>> so I'm sure that _adequate_ darkrooms had better equipment.
> 
> Hmm.  Any idea how old the equipment is?  I suppose you wouldn't
> expect people to replace existing, functional equipment without good
> reason.
> 
> Greg
> --
> Sent from my desktop computer.
> Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key.
> See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
> This message is digitally signed.  If your Microsoft mail program
> reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: Safelights (was: "9 skills our grandkids won't have")
  2022-07-02  2:35             ` Larry McVoy
  2022-07-02  2:43               ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
@ 2022-07-02  2:49               ` Dave Horsfall
  2022-07-06  9:00                 ` Peter Jeremy via COFF
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Dave Horsfall @ 2022-07-02  2:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Computer Old Farts Followers

On Fri, 1 Jul 2022, Larry McVoy wrote:

> I was a photography nerd in the 1980's and we used red lights.  As nerdy 
> as I was, I remember those times with fond memories.  Something special 
> about putting the paper in the mix and seeing the picture come out of 
> nowhere.  And the power you had with dodging to bring what you wanted 
> into focus.

Ah, dodging...  Well I remember my early photo days in the late 60s 
(including developing my film in the wardrobe with a blanket over 
everything and fixing them with diluted vinegar).  Then years later I 
discovered that my Uni had a photo lab replete with enlarger and glazer 
:-)

Or taking your 110 film to the local chemist (and there'd better not be 
any "naughty" pics on them, otherwise you wouldn't get them back).  And 
the yellow envelopes that came with every roll of Kodak colour slides 
(which no longer seem to be able to be processed; I have a roll with 
Halley's Comet on it).

The youngsters these days wouldn't know what we're talking about, of 
course...

-- Dave

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: Safelights (was: "9 skills our grandkids won't have")
  2022-07-02  2:35             ` Larry McVoy
@ 2022-07-02  2:43               ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
  2022-07-02  2:49               ` Dave Horsfall
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey @ 2022-07-02  2:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Larry McVoy; +Cc: COFF

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On Friday,  1 July 2022 at 19:35:02 -0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 01, 2022 at 09:24:28PM -0500, Charles H. Sauer wrote:
>>> On Jul 1, 2022, at 8:26 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Friday,  1 July 2022 at 17:57:35 -0700, Adam Thornton wrote:
>>>> On Jul 1, 2022, at 5:08 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Friday,  1 July 2022 at 20:12:44 +0200, Harald Arnesen wrote:
>>>>>> Except that we didn't use red light in our darkrooms at all, at least
>>>>>> not from the 1970s and on. ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Correct.  I started darkroom work in 1964, and from the beginning we
>>>>> used amber safelights.  I don't think red safelights have been used
>>>>> since long before that.
>>>>
>>>> When I learned film photography in the mid 1980s the darkroom had
>>>> red lights.  Of course it was a very old darkroom in a middle school,
>>>> so I'm sure that _adequate_ darkrooms had better equipment.
>>>
>>> Hmm.  Any idea how old the equipment is?  I suppose you wouldn't
>>> expect people to replace existing, functional equipment without good
>>> reason.
>>
>> I recall three darkrooms that I used, in 1960 a makeshift one in
>> bathroom in my home, a regular one in an armory in Greenbelt MD
>> about the same time, and one in the student union at UT Austin
>> about 1970. All three used red lights IIRC.
>
> I was a photography nerd in the 1980's and we used red lights.  As nerdy
> as I was, I remember those times with fond memories.  Something special
> about putting the paper in the mix and seeing the picture come out of
> nowhere.  And the power you had with dodging to bring what you wanted
> into focus.

Hmm.  Strange.  Maybe it's a USA thing.  I *have* seen a red safelight
(I bought a red filter for our school safelight just for the fun of
it), but I can't recall anybody using one in earnest.

Greg
--
Sent from my desktop computer.
Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed.  If your Microsoft mail program
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: Safelights (was: "9 skills our grandkids won't have")
  2022-07-02  2:24           ` [COFF] " Charles H. Sauer
@ 2022-07-02  2:35             ` Larry McVoy
  2022-07-02  2:43               ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
  2022-07-02  2:49               ` Dave Horsfall
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread
From: Larry McVoy @ 2022-07-02  2:35 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Charles H. Sauer; +Cc: COFF

I was a photography nerd in the 1980's and we used red lights.  As nerdy
as I was, I remember those times with fond memories.  Something special
about putting the paper in the mix and seeing the picture come out of
nowhere.  And the power you had with dodging to bring what you wanted
into focus.

On Fri, Jul 01, 2022 at 09:24:28PM -0500, Charles H. Sauer wrote:
> I recall three darkrooms that I used, in 1960 a makeshift one in bathroom in my home, 
> a regular one in an armory in Greenbelt MD about the same time, and one in the student union at UT Austin about 1970. All three used red lights IIRC.
> 
> > On Jul 1, 2022, at 8:26 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote:
> > 
> > On Friday,  1 July 2022 at 17:57:35 -0700, Adam Thornton wrote:
> >> On Jul 1, 2022, at 5:08 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote:
> >>> On Friday,  1 July 2022 at 20:12:44 +0200, Harald Arnesen wrote:
> >>>> Except that we didn't use red light in our darkrooms at all, at least
> >>>> not from the 1970s and on. ...
> >>> 
> >>> Correct.  I started darkroom work in 1964, and from the beginning we
> >>> used amber safelights.  I don't think red safelights have been used
> >>> since long before that.
> >> 
> >> When I learned film photography in the mid 1980s the darkroom had
> >> red lights.  Of course it was a very old darkroom in a middle school,
> >> so I'm sure that _adequate_ darkrooms had better equipment.
> > 
> > Hmm.  Any idea how old the equipment is?  I suppose you wouldn't
> > expect people to replace existing, functional equipment without good
> > reason.
> > 
> > Greg
> > --
> > Sent from my desktop computer.
> > Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key.
> > See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
> > This message is digitally signed.  If your Microsoft mail program
> > reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php
> 
> --
> voice: +1.512.784.7526       e-mail: sauer@technologists.com <mailto:sauer@technologists.com>           
> fax: +1.512.346.5240         web: https://technologists.com/sauer/ <http://technologists.com/sauer/>
> Facebook/Google/Skype/Twitter: CharlesHSauer
> 

-- 
---
Larry McVoy            Retired to fishing           http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: Safelights (was: "9 skills our grandkids won't have")
  2022-07-02  1:26         ` [COFF] Safelights (was: "9 skills our grandkids won't have") Greg 'groggy' Lehey
@ 2022-07-02  2:24           ` Charles H. Sauer
  2022-07-02  2:35             ` Larry McVoy
  2022-07-02  5:21           ` Adam Thornton
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread
From: Charles H. Sauer @ 2022-07-02  2:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey; +Cc: COFF

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1744 bytes --]

I recall three darkrooms that I used, in 1960 a makeshift one in bathroom in my home, 
a regular one in an armory in Greenbelt MD about the same time, and one in the student union at UT Austin about 1970. All three used red lights IIRC.

> On Jul 1, 2022, at 8:26 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote:
> 
> On Friday,  1 July 2022 at 17:57:35 -0700, Adam Thornton wrote:
>> On Jul 1, 2022, at 5:08 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@lemis.com> wrote:
>>> On Friday,  1 July 2022 at 20:12:44 +0200, Harald Arnesen wrote:
>>>> Except that we didn't use red light in our darkrooms at all, at least
>>>> not from the 1970s and on. ...
>>> 
>>> Correct.  I started darkroom work in 1964, and from the beginning we
>>> used amber safelights.  I don't think red safelights have been used
>>> since long before that.
>> 
>> When I learned film photography in the mid 1980s the darkroom had
>> red lights.  Of course it was a very old darkroom in a middle school,
>> so I'm sure that _adequate_ darkrooms had better equipment.
> 
> Hmm.  Any idea how old the equipment is?  I suppose you wouldn't
> expect people to replace existing, functional equipment without good
> reason.
> 
> Greg
> --
> Sent from my desktop computer.
> Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key.
> See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
> This message is digitally signed.  If your Microsoft mail program
> reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php

--
voice: +1.512.784.7526       e-mail: sauer@technologists.com <mailto:sauer@technologists.com>           
fax: +1.512.346.5240         web: https://technologists.com/sauer/ <http://technologists.com/sauer/>
Facebook/Google/Skype/Twitter: CharlesHSauer


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end of thread, other threads:[~2022-07-06  9:03 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2022-07-02  3:39 [COFF] Re: Safelights (was: "9 skills our grandkids won't have") Dennis Boone
2022-07-03  1:09 ` Dave Horsfall
2022-07-03  9:49   ` Harald Arnesen
     [not found] <180245D1-0DCD-4C2C-A26A-EF68578FD548@canb.auug.org.au>
     [not found] ` <20220701004118.GA22338@tau1.ceti.pl>
     [not found]   ` <67e0d22c-e70b-e9bb-4614-eb1426bf2bd0@gmail.com>
2022-07-02  0:08     ` [COFF] Re: "9 skills our grandkids won't have" - Is this a TUHS topic? Greg 'groggy' Lehey
     [not found]       ` <C8A3B9E1-1A2B-4882-B2C6-A7E0C9E55500@gmail.com>
2022-07-02  1:26         ` [COFF] Safelights (was: "9 skills our grandkids won't have") Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-07-02  2:24           ` [COFF] " Charles H. Sauer
2022-07-02  2:35             ` Larry McVoy
2022-07-02  2:43               ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2022-07-02  2:49               ` Dave Horsfall
2022-07-06  9:00                 ` Peter Jeremy via COFF
2022-07-02  5:21           ` Adam Thornton
2022-07-02  5:35             ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey

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