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* [COFF] What does your "cal" show?
@ 2021-09-02 22:10 Dave Horsfall
  2021-09-02 23:40 ` Tom Manos
                   ` (3 more replies)
  0 siblings, 4 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Dave Horsfall @ 2021-09-02 22:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Computer Old Farts Followers

In 1752 we switched to the Gregorian calendar, with the peasants revolting 
(as if they weren't already) because they thought they'd lost 11 days of 
their lives.

What does "cal 9 1752" show on your boxes?

-- Dave
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* Re: [COFF] What does your "cal" show?
  2021-09-02 22:10 [COFF] What does your "cal" show? Dave Horsfall
@ 2021-09-02 23:40 ` Tom Manos
  2021-09-02 23:40 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
                   ` (2 subsequent siblings)
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Tom Manos @ 2021-09-02 23:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: coff


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From 4.3BSD Quasijarus:

$ cal 9 1752
>    September 1752
>  S  M Tu  W Th  F  S
>              1  2 14 15 16
> 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
> 24 25 26 27 28 29 30


Cheers!
Tom
----
Tom Manos
Vivat Jesus
KO4ENQ


On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 6:32 PM Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org> wrote:

> In 1752 we switched to the Gregorian calendar, with the peasants revolting
> (as if they weren't already) because they thought they'd lost 11 days of
> their lives.
>
> What does "cal 9 1752" show on your boxes?
>
> -- Dave
> _______________________________________________
> COFF mailing list
> COFF@minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff
>

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* Re: [COFF] What does your "cal" show?
  2021-09-02 22:10 [COFF] What does your "cal" show? Dave Horsfall
  2021-09-02 23:40 ` Tom Manos
@ 2021-09-02 23:40 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
  2021-09-03  0:03   ` Nemo Nusquam
  2021-09-03  9:28 ` Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via COFF
  2021-09-04 14:03 ` Thomas Paulsen
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey @ 2021-09-02 23:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dave Horsfall; +Cc: Computer Old Farts Followers


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On Friday,  3 September 2021 at  8:10:38 +1000, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> In 1752 we switched to the Gregorian calendar, with the peasants revolting
> (as if they weren't already) because they thought they'd lost 11 days of
> their lives.
>
> What does "cal 9 1752" show on your boxes?

Presumably the same as on yours:

   September 1752
Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
       1  2 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30

I tried it on Apple and Linux box and got the same result, including
trailing spaces.  In each case the man page indicates a derivation
from FreeBSD.

The real question is when 259 years ago today was.

Greg
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* Re: [COFF] What does your "cal" show?
  2021-09-02 23:40 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
@ 2021-09-03  0:03   ` Nemo Nusquam
  2021-09-03  0:54     ` Grant Taylor via COFF
                       ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Nemo Nusquam @ 2021-09-03  0:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: coff

On 2021-09-02 19:40, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
> On Friday,  3 September 2021 at  8:10:38 +1000, Dave Horsfall wrote:
>> In 1752 we switched to the Gregorian calendar, with the peasants revolting
>> (as if they weren't already) because they thought they'd lost 11 days of
>> their lives.

My understanding for the revolt -- though I cannot think of a reference 
offhand -- was that landlords charged a full month's rent for the 
reduced month.

>> What does "cal 9 1752" show on your boxes?
> Presumably the same as on yours:
>
>     September 1752
> Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
>         1  2 14 15 16
> 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
> 24 25 26 27 28 29 30
>
> I tried it on Apple and Linux box and got the same result, including
> trailing spaces.  In each case the man page indicates a derivation
> from FreeBSD.

Same on Solaris 10 with the following excerpt from the man page.

NOTES
      An unusual calendar is printed for September 1752.  That  is
      the  month  11 days were skipped to make up for lack of leap
      year adjustments. To see this calendar, type:

      cal 9 1752


N.

> The real question is when 259 years ago today was.

Well, we have the question every leap year on February 29.

N.

> Greg
> --
> Sent from my desktop computer.
> Finger grog@lemis.com for PGP public key.
> See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
> This message is digitally signed.  If your Microsoft mail program
> reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA.php
>
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* Re: [COFF] What does your "cal" show?
  2021-09-03  0:03   ` Nemo Nusquam
@ 2021-09-03  0:54     ` Grant Taylor via COFF
  2021-09-03  1:10       ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
  2021-09-03  0:58     ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
  2021-09-03  4:47     ` Dave Horsfall
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Grant Taylor via COFF @ 2021-09-03  0:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: coff


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On 9/2/21 6:03 PM, Nemo Nusquam wrote:
> Well, we have the question every leap year on February 29.

A friend was born on February 29th.  She's both X and X ÷ 4 years old. 
It's usually worth a chuckle.  I make a point to wish her a happy 
birthday on February 28th three out of four years.  The forth year, I'm 
lazy and delay by a day.  }:-)



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die


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* Re: [COFF] What does your "cal" show?
  2021-09-03  0:03   ` Nemo Nusquam
  2021-09-03  0:54     ` Grant Taylor via COFF
@ 2021-09-03  0:58     ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
  2021-09-03  4:47     ` Dave Horsfall
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey @ 2021-09-03  0:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Nemo Nusquam; +Cc: coff


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On Thursday,  2 September 2021 at 20:03:20 -0400, Nemo Nusquam wrote:
> On 2021-09-02 19:40, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
>> On Friday,  3 September 2021 at  8:10:38 +1000, Dave Horsfall wrote:
>>> In 1752 we switched to the Gregorian calendar, with the peasants revolting
>>> (as if they weren't already) because they thought they'd lost 11 days of
>>> their lives.
>
> My understanding for the revolt -- though I cannot think of a reference
> offhand -- was that landlords charged a full month's rent for the
> reduced month.

Hmm.  I thought it was because the tax was paid in kind, and the
change meant that they were due before the harvest was done.  But it
seems that we're all wrong: the riots probably never happened.

The normal taxes weren't affected.  Before the change, the tax year
ended on Lady Day (25 March), but this was changed to 5 April, still
the case today.  And interestingly, it seems that before the change
the calendar year also changed on Lady Day, so 24 March 1750 was
followed by 25 March 1751.  This, too, was changed.

More at
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Give-us-our-eleven-days/
and of course
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_(New_Style)_Act_1750

Greg
--
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* Re: [COFF] What does your "cal" show?
  2021-09-03  0:54     ` Grant Taylor via COFF
@ 2021-09-03  1:10       ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
  2021-09-03  4:58         ` Dave Horsfall
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey @ 2021-09-03  1:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Grant Taylor; +Cc: coff


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On Thursday,  2 September 2021 at 18:54:50 -0600, COFF wrote:
> On 9/2/21 6:03 PM, Nemo Nusquam wrote:
>> Well, we have the question every leap year on February 29.
>
> A friend was born on February 29th.  She's both X and X ÷ 4 years old.
> It's usually worth a chuckle.  I make a point to wish her a happy
> birthday on February 28th three out of four years.  The forth year, I'm
> lazy and delay by a day.  }:-)

I have been married twice.  First wife was born on 28 February on a
leap year, second wife on 1 March 3 years earlier.  We can't agree on
the age difference.

The other reference, of course, is Gilbert and Sullivan's "The Pirates
of Penzance", where Frederic, the hero, was born on 29 February 1860
and apprenticed to a band of pirates until his 21st birthday (a
paradox: 29 February 1940).

Greg
--
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* Re: [COFF] What does your "cal" show?
  2021-09-03  0:03   ` Nemo Nusquam
  2021-09-03  0:54     ` Grant Taylor via COFF
  2021-09-03  0:58     ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
@ 2021-09-03  4:47     ` Dave Horsfall
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Dave Horsfall @ 2021-09-03  4:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Computer Old Farts Followers

On Thu, 2 Sep 2021, Nemo Nusquam wrote:

>> The real question is when 259 years ago today was.
>
> Well, we have the question every leap year on February 29.

Along with the non-leap year centuries :-)  I've seen a lot of programs
that get that wrong.

-- Dave
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* Re: [COFF] What does your "cal" show?
  2021-09-03  1:10       ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
@ 2021-09-03  4:58         ` Dave Horsfall
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Dave Horsfall @ 2021-09-03  4:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Computer Old Farts Followers

On Fri, 3 Sep 2021, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:

> The other reference, of course, is Gilbert and Sullivan's "The Pirates 
> of Penzance", where Frederic, the hero, was born on 29 February 1860 and 
> apprenticed to a band of pirates until his 21st birthday (a paradox: 29 
> February 1940).

Yes, that one is a classic; he could only celebrate his 21st every 4 
years...

-- Dave
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* Re: [COFF] What does your "cal" show?
  2021-09-02 22:10 [COFF] What does your "cal" show? Dave Horsfall
  2021-09-02 23:40 ` Tom Manos
  2021-09-02 23:40 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
@ 2021-09-03  9:28 ` Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via COFF
  2021-09-08 10:24   ` Tony Finch
  2021-09-04 14:03 ` Thomas Paulsen
  3 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via COFF @ 2021-09-03  9:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dave Horsfall; +Cc: Computer Old Farts Followers

Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org> writes:

> In 1752 we switched to the Gregorian calendar, [...]

Speak for yourself!  :)

England transitioned in 1752, as you say, but here in Norway, we made
that change in 1700, skipping from February 18th to March 1st.  Other
countries changed at other times - Russia as late as 1918.

The funniest transition was done by Sweden, though.  They decided to
transition over a period of forty years, by skipping leap days.  They
dropped the leap day in 1700, then forgot to do it in 1704 and 1708,
gave up and went back to the Julian calendar in 1711, and stayed with
that until 1753, when February 17th was followed by March 1st.

-tih
-- 
Most people who graduate with CS degrees don't understand the significance
of Lisp.  Lisp is the most important idea in computer science.  --Alan Kay
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* Re: [COFF] What does your "cal" show?
  2021-09-02 22:10 [COFF] What does your "cal" show? Dave Horsfall
                   ` (2 preceding siblings ...)
  2021-09-03  9:28 ` Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via COFF
@ 2021-09-04 14:03 ` Thomas Paulsen
  3 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Thomas Paulsen @ 2021-09-04 14:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dave Horsfall; +Cc: coff

cal 9 1752

   September 1752   
Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
       1  2 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30


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* Re: [COFF] What does your "cal" show?
  2021-09-03  9:28 ` Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via COFF
@ 2021-09-08 10:24   ` Tony Finch
  2021-09-08 13:25     ` Dave Horsfall
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Tony Finch @ 2021-09-08 10:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Tom Ivar Helbekkmo; +Cc: Computer Old Farts Followers

Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via COFF <coff@minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
>
> The funniest transition was done by Sweden, though.  They decided to
> transition over a period of forty years, by skipping leap days.  They
> dropped the leap day in 1700, then forgot to do it in 1704 and 1708,
> gave up and went back to the Julian calendar in 1711, and stayed with
> that until 1753, when February 17th was followed by March 1st.

It's even more funny than that :-) They actually went back to the Julian
calendar in 1712, and they needed to add back the leap day they skipped in
1700; this extra day became February 30th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-standard_dates#February_30

Tony.
-- 
f.anthony.n.finch  <dot@dotat.at>  https://dotat.at/
Great Orme Head to the Mull of Galloway: East or southeast, becoming
cyclonic, 3 to 5, then variable 3 or less later. Smooth, occasionally
slight. Showers, perhaps thundery later. Moderate or good,
occasionally poor later.

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* Re: [COFF] What does your "cal" show?
  2021-09-08 10:24   ` Tony Finch
@ 2021-09-08 13:25     ` Dave Horsfall
  2021-09-08 20:36       ` Warner Losh
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Dave Horsfall @ 2021-09-08 13:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Computer Old Farts Followers

On Wed, 8 Sep 2021, Tony Finch wrote:

> It's even more funny than that :-) They actually went back to the Julian
> calendar in 1712, and they needed to add back the leap day they skipped in
> 1700; this extra day became February 30th.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-standard_dates#February_30

Oh, my sainted aunt...

-- Dave
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* Re: [COFF] What does your "cal" show?
  2021-09-08 13:25     ` Dave Horsfall
@ 2021-09-08 20:36       ` Warner Losh
  2021-09-08 22:52         ` Adam Thornton
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2021-09-08 20:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dave Horsfall; +Cc: Computer Old Farts Followers


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On Wed, Sep 8, 2021, 7:25 AM Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Sep 2021, Tony Finch wrote:
>
> > It's even more funny than that :-) They actually went back to the Julian
> > calendar in 1712, and they needed to add back the leap day they skipped
> in
> > 1700; this extra day became February 30th.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-standard_dates#February_30
>
> Oh, my sainted aunt...
>

This is the example I give to people who say calendars are easy...

Also, I use it in my screeds against the current observational nature of
leap seconds.

Warner

-- Dave
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* Re: [COFF] What does your "cal" show?
  2021-09-08 20:36       ` Warner Losh
@ 2021-09-08 22:52         ` Adam Thornton
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Adam Thornton @ 2021-09-08 22:52 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Warner Losh; +Cc: Computer Old Farts Followers


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Ah, leap seconds.  I work for an observatory.  Some things are in TAI and some are in UTC.  At least now I know what to look for when something is 37 seconds off.

Adam

> On Sep 8, 2021, at 1:36 PM, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2021, 7:25 AM Dave Horsfall <dave@horsfall.org <mailto:dave@horsfall.org>> wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Sep 2021, Tony Finch wrote:
> 
> > It's even more funny than that :-) They actually went back to the Julian
> > calendar in 1712, and they needed to add back the leap day they skipped in
> > 1700; this extra day became February 30th.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-standard_dates#February_30 <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-standard_dates#February_30>
> 
> Oh, my sainted aunt...
> 
> This is the example I give to people who say calendars are easy...
> 
> Also, I use it in my screeds against the current observational nature of leap seconds.
> 
> Warner
> 
> -- Dave
> _______________________________________________
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> COFF@minnie.tuhs.org <mailto:COFF@minnie.tuhs.org>
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff <https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff


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* Re: [COFF] What does your "cal" show?
@ 2021-09-03 13:06 Noel Chiappa
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Noel Chiappa @ 2021-09-03 13:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: coff; +Cc: jnc

    > From: Dave Horsfall

    > What does "cal 9 1752" show on your boxes?

Given that the source:

  https://minnie.tuhs.org//cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V6/usr/source/s1/cal.c

has been in C since at least V6, I'd be rather surprised if on other
machines it did anything other than what those of us who were paying
attention read in the documentation:

  https://minnie.tuhs.org//cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V6/usr/man/man6/cal.6

back then: "Try September 1752."

Get off my lawn.

	Noel

PS: Said documentation already notes that it won't work in most counries:
"The calendar produced is that for England and her colonies." For more
fun with calendates, check out the Japanese Lunar-Solar Calendar:

  http://www.chiappa.net/~jnc/prints/calendar.html
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end of thread, other threads:[~2021-09-08 22:52 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 16+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-09-02 22:10 [COFF] What does your "cal" show? Dave Horsfall
2021-09-02 23:40 ` Tom Manos
2021-09-02 23:40 ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2021-09-03  0:03   ` Nemo Nusquam
2021-09-03  0:54     ` Grant Taylor via COFF
2021-09-03  1:10       ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2021-09-03  4:58         ` Dave Horsfall
2021-09-03  0:58     ` Greg 'groggy' Lehey
2021-09-03  4:47     ` Dave Horsfall
2021-09-03  9:28 ` Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via COFF
2021-09-08 10:24   ` Tony Finch
2021-09-08 13:25     ` Dave Horsfall
2021-09-08 20:36       ` Warner Losh
2021-09-08 22:52         ` Adam Thornton
2021-09-04 14:03 ` Thomas Paulsen
2021-09-03 13:06 Noel Chiappa

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	# initialize and index your mirror using the following commands:
	public-inbox-init -V1 coff coff/ https://inbox.vuxu.org/coff \
		coff@minnie.tuhs.org
	public-inbox-index coff

Example config snippet for mirrors.
Newsgroup available over NNTP:
	nntp://inbox.vuxu.org/vuxu.archive.coff


AGPL code for this site: git clone https://public-inbox.org/public-inbox.git