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* [COFF] [TUHS] Will pdp 11/04 run unix?
@ 2020-07-31 13:56 jnc
  2020-07-31 15:32 ` lars
  2020-07-31 18:53 ` clemc
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: jnc @ 2020-07-31 13:56 UTC (permalink / raw)


    > From: Angelo Papenhoff

    > Well the TV-11 is a tough question. I originally wrote an 11/05 emulator
    > because some document said it was an 11/10 (which is the same thing).
    > But other sources claimed it was an 11/20.

Hmmm. My memory was that it was an -11/05-10 (they are identical, except for
the paint on the front panel; and I don't recall it in enough detail to say),
but perhaps I'm wrong?

Or maybe it was an -11/20 early, and then it got replaced with an -11/10? (I
have a _very_ vague memory that the XGP's -11 was a /20, bur I wouldn't put
much weight on that.)

Moon or TK or someone might remember better.

     Noel



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* [COFF] [TUHS] Will pdp 11/04 run unix?
@ 2020-07-31 21:26 jnc
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: jnc @ 2020-07-31 21:26 UTC (permalink / raw)


    > From: Lars Brinkhoff

    > I have seen conflicting information in sources dating from the 70s when
    > the TV-11 and XGP-11 were very much in use.
    > For several reasons, I believe the TV-11 was the first machine attached
    > to the 10-11 interface, and the XGP-11 came second.  This would lend
    > some weak support for the theory that the first would be a 11/20 and the
    > second a 11/10.

Yeah, but Clem's note reinforces my vague memory that the XGP-11 was an
-11/20.

I wish we had a picture of the Knight TV system (the system, not a
terminal). It's a extremely significant system - I believe it my have been the
first bit-mapped computer display system ever; and thus the prototype, in some
sense, for the display of every single personal compupter (including phones)
now extant - and so there _ought_ to be a photo of it.  But looking online for
a while, I can turn up almost nothing about it! (I guess we should do a page
about it on the CHWiki...)

(Repeat my prior grump about how the AI Lab did all sorts of ground-breaking
stuff, because it was just 'tools', and not their main research focus, it's
hard to find out about a lot of it, e.g. the inter-ITS network file
system.)

But if you can find an image, even a low-res picture of that end of the AI Lab
machine room, we can tell what model the TV-11 is - early 11's had inteagrated
front panels, which are different for every model:

  http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/pdp11/PDP-11_Models.html

so you don't even need to be able to read anything to tell a /20 from a /10.
It was in a dual (I think - maybe triple, it's been a looooooong time :-)
rack which IIRC was along the side wall (i.e. the short building side) next to
the AI KA10 (which was sort of along the long wall, up in the corner).

I don't know if the XGP-11 code is still extant (my copy of the ITS filesystem
is offline right at the moment), but even if we look at the code, I'm not sure
we could tell; there are some _very minor_ programming differences between the
/20 and /10 (e.g. V bit on SWAB) - see the table at thd end of the PDP-11
Architecture Handbook - but I'd be aurprised if the code used any.

Surely there has to be _some_ picture of the machine room which shows it, even
if in the background.


    > I did bring it up with TK at some point.

Try RG, too.

    Noel


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread

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2020-07-31  7:57   ` [COFF] [TUHS] Will pdp 11/04 run unix? lars
2020-07-31 13:56 jnc
2020-07-31 15:32 ` lars
2020-07-31 18:53 ` clemc
2020-07-31 19:38   ` lars
2020-07-31 19:40     ` clemc
2020-07-31 20:00     ` bgbaumgart
2020-07-31 20:05       ` clemc
2020-07-31 21:26 jnc

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