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* [COFF] [TUHS] Pondering the hosts file
@ 2021-03-11 18:30 bakul
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: bakul @ 2021-03-11 18:30 UTC (permalink / raw)


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On Mar 11, 2021, at 10:08 AM, Warner Losh <imp at bsdimp.com> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:40 AM Bakul Shah <bakul at iitbombay.org> wrote:
>> From https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)
>> For each host a single line should be present with the following information:
>> 	   Internet address
>> 	   official host name
>> 	   aliases
>> HISTORY
>>      The hosts file format appeared in 4.2BSD.
> 
> While this is true wrt the history of FreeBSD/Unix, I'm almost positive that BSD didn't invent it. I'm pretty sure it was picked up from the existing host file that was published by sri-nic.arpa before DNS.

A different and more verbose format. See RFCs 810 & 952. Possibly because it had to serve more purposes?

> Warner
>  
>>> On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:14 AM, Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet History, so please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
>>> 
>>> I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's any historical documentation around it's format and what should and should not be entered in the file.
>>> 
>>> I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's far from authoritative.  I'm hoping that someone can point me to something more authoritative to the hosts file's format, guidelines around entering data, and how it's supposed to function.
>>> 
>>> A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how many entries a host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any ramifications for having a host appear as an alias on multiple lines / entries.  To whit, how correct / incorrect is the following:
>>> 
>>> 192.0.2.1    host.example.net    host
>>> 127.0.0.1    localhost    host.example.net    host
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Grant. . . .
>>> unix || die
>> _______________________________________________
>> COFF mailing list
>> COFF at minnie.tuhs.org
>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff
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* [COFF] [TUHS]  Pondering the hosts file
  2021-03-11 18:12     ` clemc
  2021-03-11 18:21       ` jaapna
  2021-03-11 18:21       ` beebe
@ 2021-03-11 18:27       ` henry.r.bent
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: henry.r.bent @ 2021-03-11 18:27 UTC (permalink / raw)


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On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 13:14, Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> wrote:

> The SRI file was different format.   There was a tool that fetched and
> converted from the PDP-10 scheme to the UNIX scheme - gethtable(8) or
> something like that.
> ᐧ
> ᐧ
>

gettable(8) and htable(8):

GETTABLE(8C)

GETTABLE(8C)

NAME
       gettable - get NIC format host tables from a host

SYNOPSIS
       /etc/gettable host

DESCRIPTION
       Gettable is a simple program used to obtain the NIC standard host
tables from a ``nicname'' server.  The indicated host is queried for the
tables.
       The tables, if retrieved, are placed in the file hosts.txt.

       Gettable operates by opening a TCP connection to the port indicated
in the service specification for ``nicname''.  A  request  is  then  made
 for
       ``ALL'' names and the resultant information is placed in the output
file.

       Gettable  is  best  used in conjunction with the htable(8) program
which converts the NIC standard file format to that used by the network
library
       lookup routines.

SEE ALSO
       intro(3N), htable(8)

BUGS
       Should allow requests for only part of the database.

4th Berkeley Distribution                                              4
March 1983
 GETTABLE(8C)


HTABLE(8)                   System Manager's Manual
 HTABLE(8)



NAME
       htable - convert NIC standard format host tables

SYNOPSIS
       /etc/htable file

DESCRIPTION
       Htable  is used to convert host files in the format specified in
Inter-
       net RFC 810 to the format used by the network library routines.
Three
       files  are  created as a result of running htable: hosts, networks,
and
       gateways.  The hosts file is used by  the  gethostent(3N)  routines
 in
       mapping host names to addresses.  The networks file is used by the
get-
       netent(3N) routines in mapping network names to numbers.  The
 gateways
       file  is used by the routing daemon in identifying ``passive''
Internet
       gateways; see routed(8C) for an explanation.

       If any of the files localhosts,  localnetworks,  or  localgateways
 are
       present  in  the current directory, the file's contents is prepended
to
       the output file without interpretation.  This allows sites to
 maintain
       local  aliases and entries which are not normally present in the
master
       database.

       Htable is best used in conjunction with the gettable(8C) program
 which
       retrieves the NIC database from a host.

SEE ALSO
       intro(3N), gettable(8C)

BUGS
       Does not properly calculate the gateways file.



4th Berkeley Distribution        4 March 1983
 HTABLE(8)

-Henry
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* [COFF] [TUHS]  Pondering the hosts file
  2021-03-11 18:12     ` clemc
  2021-03-11 18:21       ` jaapna
@ 2021-03-11 18:21       ` beebe
  2021-03-11 18:27       ` henry.r.bent
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: beebe @ 2021-03-11 18:21 UTC (permalink / raw)


The hosts file format definition appears in

	RFC 752: Universal host table
	RFC 810: DoD Internet host table specification
	RFC 952: DoD Internet host table specification

A 1986 hosts.txt file in my PDP-10 archives notes:

; The format for entries is:
;
; NET : NET-ADDR : NETNAME :
; GATEWAY : ADDR, ADDR : NAME : CPUTYPE : OPSYS : PROTOCOLS :
; HOST : ADDR, ALTERNATE-ADDR (if any): HOSTNAME,NICKNAME : CPUTYPE :
;   OPSYS : PROTOCOLS :
;
; Where:
;;  ADDR = internet address in decimal, e.g., 26.0.0.73
;;  CPUTYPE = machine type (PDP-11/70, VAX-11/780, FOONLY-F3, C/30, etc.)
;;  OPSYS = operating system (UNIX, TOPS20, TENEX, ITS, etc.)
;;  PROTOCOLS = transport/service (TCP/TELNET,TCP/FTP, etc.)
;;  : (colon) = field delimiter
;;  :: (2 colons) = null field

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Nelson H. F. Beebe                    Tel: +1 801 581 5254                  -
- University of Utah                    FAX: +1 801 581 4148                  -
- Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB    Internet e-mail: beebe at math.utah.edu  -
- 155 S 1400 E RM 233                       beebe at acm.org  beebe at computer.org -
- Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA    URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* [COFF] [TUHS]  Pondering the hosts file
  2021-03-11 18:12     ` clemc
@ 2021-03-11 18:21       ` jaapna
  2021-03-11 18:21       ` beebe
  2021-03-11 18:27       ` henry.r.bent
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: jaapna @ 2021-03-11 18:21 UTC (permalink / raw)


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The "new" host table format is described in RFC 810 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc810 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc810> (mentions UNIX) but it goes back to RFC 608 (1974) or so.

	jaap

> On Mar 11, 2021, at 19:12, Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> wrote:
> 
> The SRI file was different format.   There was a tool that fetched and converted from the PDP-10 scheme to the UNIX scheme - gethtable(8) or something like that.
> ᐧ
> ᐧ
> 
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 1:08 PM Warner Losh <imp at bsdimp.com <mailto:imp at bsdimp.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:40 AM Bakul Shah <bakul at iitbombay.org <mailto:bakul at iitbombay.org>> wrote:
> From https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5) <https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)>
> For each host a single line should be present with the following information:
> 	   Internet address
> 	   official host name
> 	   aliases
> HISTORY <https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)#end>
>      The hosts file format appeared in 4.2BSD.
> 
> While this is true wrt the history of FreeBSD/Unix, I'm almost positive that BSD didn't invent it. I'm pretty sure it was picked up from the existing host file that was published by sri-nic.arpa before DNS.
> 
> Warner
> 
>> On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:14 AM, Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org <mailto:tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet History, so please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
>> 
>> I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's any historical documentation around it's format and what should and should not be entered in the file.
>> 
>> I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's far from authoritative.  I'm hoping that someone can point me to something more authoritative to the hosts file's format, guidelines around entering data, and how it's supposed to function.
>> 
>> A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how many entries a host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any ramifications for having a host appear as an alias on multiple lines / entries.  To whit, how correct / incorrect is the following:
>> 
>> 192.0.2.1    host.example.net <http://host.example.net/>    host
>> 127.0.0.1    localhost    host.example.net <http://host.example.net/>    host
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Grant. . . .
>> unix || die
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> COFF mailing list
> COFF at minnie.tuhs.org <mailto:COFF at minnie.tuhs.org>
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff <https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff>

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* [COFF] [TUHS]  Pondering the hosts file
  2021-03-11 18:08   ` imp
  2021-03-11 18:12     ` clemc
@ 2021-03-11 18:18     ` henry.r.bent
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: henry.r.bent @ 2021-03-11 18:18 UTC (permalink / raw)


While this is true wrt the history of FreeBSD/Unix, I'm almost positive
> that BSD didn't invent it. I'm pretty sure it was picked up from the
> existing host file that was published by sri-nic.arpa before DNS.
>
> Warner
>

The CSRG history doesn't seem to have saved the full SCCS history of the
hosts manpage, but it must have appeared sometime around the addition of
ARP support to 4.1BSD - it's not in the 4.1C sources without ARP, but it is
in the sources with it.  That version does indeed mention its origins:

HOSTS(5)                      File Formats Manual
HOSTS(5)



NAME
       hosts - host name data base

DESCRIPTION
       The  hosts  file  contains information regarding the known hosts on
the
       DARPA Internet.  For each host a single line should be present with
the
       following information:

       official host name
       Internet address
       aliases

       Items  are  separated by any number of blanks and/or tab characters.
 A
       ``#'' indicates the beginning of a comment; characters up to the end
of
       the  line  are not interpreted by routines which search the file.
This
       file is normally created from the official host data base maintained
at
       the  Network Information Control Center (NIC), though local changes
may
       be required to bring it up to date regarding unofficial aliases
 and/or
       unknown hosts.

       Network  addresses are specified in the conventional ``.'' notation
us-
       ing the inet_addr() routine from the Internet address manipulation
 li-
       brary,  inet(3).   Host names may contain any printable character
other
       than a field delimiter, newline, or comment character.

FILES
       /etc/hosts

SEE ALSO
       gethostent(3N)

BUGS
       A name server should be used instead of a static file.   A  binary
 in-
       dexed file format should be available for fast access.



                                15 January 1983
HOSTS(5)

-Henry
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* [COFF] [TUHS]  Pondering the hosts file
  2021-03-11 18:08   ` imp
@ 2021-03-11 18:12     ` clemc
  2021-03-11 18:21       ` jaapna
                         ` (2 more replies)
  2021-03-11 18:18     ` henry.r.bent
  1 sibling, 3 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: clemc @ 2021-03-11 18:12 UTC (permalink / raw)


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The SRI file was different format.   There was a tool that fetched and
converted from the PDP-10 scheme to the UNIX scheme - gethtable(8) or
something like that.
ᐧ
ᐧ

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 1:08 PM Warner Losh <imp at bsdimp.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:40 AM Bakul Shah <bakul at iitbombay.org> wrote:
>
>> From https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)
>>
>> For each host a single line should be present with the following information:
>>
>> 	   Internet address
>> 	   official host name
>> 	   aliases
>>
>> *HISTORY* <https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)#end>
>>      The *hosts* file format appeared in 4.2BSD.
>>
>>
> While this is true wrt the history of FreeBSD/Unix, I'm almost positive
> that BSD didn't invent it. I'm pretty sure it was picked up from the
> existing host file that was published by sri-nic.arpa before DNS.
>
> Warner
>
>
>> On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:14 AM, Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet
>> History, so please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
>>
>> I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's
>> any historical documentation around it's format and what should and should
>> not be entered in the file.
>>
>> I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's far
>> from authoritative.  I'm hoping that someone can point me to something more
>> authoritative to the hosts file's format, guidelines around entering data,
>> and how it's supposed to function.
>>
>> A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how
>> many entries a host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any
>> ramifications for having a host appear as an alias on multiple lines /
>> entries.  To whit, how correct / incorrect is the following:
>>
>> 192.0.2.1    host.example.net    host
>> 127.0.0.1    localhost    host.example.net    host
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Grant. . . .
>> unix || die
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> COFF mailing list
>> COFF at minnie.tuhs.org
>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff
>>
>
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* [COFF] [TUHS] Pondering the hosts file
  2021-03-11 17:40 ` [COFF] [TUHS] " bakul
@ 2021-03-11 18:08   ` imp
  2021-03-11 18:12     ` clemc
  2021-03-11 18:18     ` henry.r.bent
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: imp @ 2021-03-11 18:08 UTC (permalink / raw)


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On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:40 AM Bakul Shah <bakul at iitbombay.org> wrote:

> From https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)
>
> For each host a single line should be present with the following information:
>
> 	   Internet address
> 	   official host name
> 	   aliases
>
> *HISTORY* <https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)#end>
>      The *hosts* file format appeared in 4.2BSD.
>
>
While this is true wrt the history of FreeBSD/Unix, I'm almost positive
that BSD didn't invent it. I'm pretty sure it was picked up from the
existing host file that was published by sri-nic.arpa before DNS.

Warner


> On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:14 AM, Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org>
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet
> History, so please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
>
> I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's
> any historical documentation around it's format and what should and should
> not be entered in the file.
>
> I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's far
> from authoritative.  I'm hoping that someone can point me to something more
> authoritative to the hosts file's format, guidelines around entering data,
> and how it's supposed to function.
>
> A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how
> many entries a host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any
> ramifications for having a host appear as an alias on multiple lines /
> entries.  To whit, how correct / incorrect is the following:
>
> 192.0.2.1    host.example.net    host
> 127.0.0.1    localhost    host.example.net    host
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>
> _______________________________________________
> COFF mailing list
> COFF at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff
>
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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

* [COFF] [TUHS] Pondering the hosts file
  2021-03-11 17:13 [COFF] " gtaylor
@ 2021-03-11 17:40 ` bakul
  2021-03-11 18:08   ` imp
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: bakul @ 2021-03-11 17:40 UTC (permalink / raw)




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-03-11 18:30 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-03-11 18:30 [COFF] [TUHS] Pondering the hosts file bakul
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-03-11 17:13 [COFF] " gtaylor
2021-03-11 17:40 ` [COFF] [TUHS] " bakul
2021-03-11 18:08   ` imp
2021-03-11 18:12     ` clemc
2021-03-11 18:21       ` jaapna
2021-03-11 18:21       ` beebe
2021-03-11 18:27       ` henry.r.bent
2021-03-11 18:18     ` henry.r.bent

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