From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 10224 invoked from network); 12 Jun 2023 23:04:40 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 12 Jun 2023 23:04:40 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 938A8424F9; Tue, 13 Jun 2023 09:04:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pj1-x1031.google.com (mail-pj1-x1031.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1031]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34891424F8; Tue, 13 Jun 2023 09:04:33 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pj1-x1031.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-25bd4d3f35bso1187186a91.1; Mon, 12 Jun 2023 16:04:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1686611072; x=1689203072; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=aBBJktpvDmfnKIXgHqTkq+i3yZ1v1DrKIQzI8kifQv8=; b=N4xvUZ381onht8BMxemGl9oP5tXilEQ+tzBZ9pOJBzUQ+TUDu0cKKvgBxQtIfemD/r TcT3TG1U9BvwSm8PO1QYtvm2QU9rsI/LAe5Vky7K0B1wnWbSMEwdeAFcNx8OLKXaW7gz MfquH7alGMJWSICn10HKeSXGv4081mFjIK+XimrXdWnynoS2MSstf40Nm2Gq+jproy2F hOenlCP5n17146y1bXNijxCWXiKQ1Az4UHdB9K2EUe69vsd5oKeaUZ2FJ5jHJ5rUrFUy aYO3wOQMHDGniRl1/2lH3e4Pmm3Uu5p131YnnTuPdwS/SdDye7euPtVQRZUHl6G3TT6u JmKw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1686611072; x=1689203072; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=aBBJktpvDmfnKIXgHqTkq+i3yZ1v1DrKIQzI8kifQv8=; b=at+N7AoydcxzDFXFgYfEam+3GySvfuFYqmYlbKNUvPMScQwwdeD5L9O060XW+G2pqz 33JV8VTLX9oNXW4l6CigQqcVHNUYWMlJ08UkpXZz3LaferTyON8prr3PjAHvWjUsbVqf E5t+oKldVk+5yOTMjjjoAyUgv3YtG2VL4s9IgY0g6+vDl1KOcGKEZUQiJVei6F54A0ch 1kyuwVeFlJWnJmpPWv8LrLFA6d5h1NhjaudqgFRvVAeae+JYYO6Zahg7rs8Q1KduJSLM wPDhL82rjc7D3JLtJaBlJDANG+7UK5QYp0dIfYmh5fmLs22dOCCk6U9DbypNdH1hwjWW DZIg== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDwlpX+Y837plw8IAz4SQhFPSZX9w8wUVo37X/q8dmHaUo5PSvRl mWsulLK+aw0G5qDvvPxXPpppedq3BPm3GmcyoMESSMFM X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ4BhpKoxdXbK777dnoAoyQ+p1MTe2fIXFD8Ph49QrBLaqbifvN9bdSoOJkAqD79mecPGbAmx1RwyY2Vj2IBWQI= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:3ec3:b0:253:38bf:9757 with SMTP id rm3-20020a17090b3ec300b0025338bf9757mr8808712pjb.43.1686611072065; Mon, 12 Jun 2023 16:04:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a05:6a10:f48f:b0:4c1:7ec0:eb04 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jun 2023 16:04:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20230612213912.mywv5znz66pk3n5q@illithid> From: Paul Winalski Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2023 19:04:31 -0400 Message-ID: To: Clem Cole Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: 6TAJWDGS7JTJ65ATCB7WAFN7FH7VVEEK X-Message-ID-Hash: 6TAJWDGS7JTJ65ATCB7WAFN7FH7VVEEK X-MailFrom: paul.winalski@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: "G. Branden Robinson" , The Eunuchs Hysterical Society , Computer Old Farts Followers X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: crt0 -- what's in that name? List-Id: Computer Old Farts Forum Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 6/12/23, Clem Cole wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 12, 2023 at 5:39=E2=80=AFPM G. Branden Robinson < > g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> wrote: > >> It's an ill wind that blows a Fortran runtime using the same convention. >> > Be careful there, weedhopper ... I don't think this remark was intended to denigrate Fortran in any way. I took it as a wryly humorous way to make the observation that C and Fortran have different program startup semantics, and that there is other stuff that has to be done when firing up a program written wholly or partially in Fortran beyond what is needed to start up a C application. Most operating system ABIs, Unix included, don't have a formalized mechanism for dealing with the differences between startup semantics of various programming languages. They deal with the problem in an ad-hack fashion. The one exception that I know of is VMS (now OpenVMS). Tom Hastings was the architect who designed the original VAX/VMS ABI. He was aware from the get-go that several programming languages had to be supported and he made sure that his design was general enough to allow programmers to write routines in the most suitable language for them, to mix and match modules written in different languages in the same program, and to easily make calls from one language to another. It was a stroke of genius and I haven't seen its like in any other OS (several times I've wished it was there, though). Further discussion in COFF. -Paul W.