From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,LOTS_OF_MONEY, MAILING_LIST_MULTI,T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 19762 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2023 21:51:26 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (2600:3c01:e000:146::1) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 30 Jul 2023 21:51:26 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C3CA410F0; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 07:51:25 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-pf1-x431.google.com (mail-pf1-x431.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::431]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4A05410EE for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2023 07:51:17 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-pf1-x431.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-686c06b806cso2680174b3a.2 for ; Sun, 30 Jul 2023 14:51:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1690753877; x=1691358677; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:references:in-reply-to :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=evTb8Mh2q+8jzAgOwbKj4y4A7Jq2JgbjcshWjZzgYYc=; b=Zos9og5VhtfCpiyWUezkRRSFxVwkc7DncgkPPy4u+SWZ9wUWGvEzuKcFN5pvhV1Jy3 iJ9mRJdgZiCt/gXjY0fgINlVLDGwXJylCpFESqtngXe2q7DjfctLdTO0MAeYE/8b88XD hJF0j+YpNQWP8AdNlUH1PkUml4jB9fgjI5lcan8p/8uVdOIFoqZpfKGXeOHURmY2qxvY Fp+iVaQdJUggb6Nra3eKCL+hGXXQ+3T/TpsMfW+KNvydjqPlGzexGU3eWSxBdu3phHeP Ar/aVI/IplZW4oSpVDHhHbCVij6fT0XbDRszFG5/rlcTFVbOAu9aJN8VvsKzrZdLznbs HB2g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1690753877; x=1691358677; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:references:in-reply-to :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=evTb8Mh2q+8jzAgOwbKj4y4A7Jq2JgbjcshWjZzgYYc=; b=hvweIJWwlE/2F/cswwAZdBKM2SDHJRxxA06ck25SX6AXhc1MQ8k+lxtmg7vVc11tSQ MF9fM7DtYILmazXdERSIVOUn2Q1yBuqUqRF9MrRduev9G6mW2ikrvZxSNnl3nJgiiPA2 sskG82ZvFqRu85GaIeEEPidtVlei98HnFPv8NkRq+QjhwGwehMYamPzyaYVqOeBpVDw8 v6khWGkxkXFfM8mr68B4leEqHcv8wWkWx4LkfSdm8S62zsoGTr6Ghov0/o8VBA+nFTZt AKbku+KcSI9Ai2BgICEgpIt5FSuWENV+L4CW+BvxjD6Wt0sDjEBNHkwO/0QElempnV/0 ertg== X-Gm-Message-State: ABy/qLbWsUteJtI8K39PR3yZlXTgWH3Iw3z2oYEWCcBtDQFVQP56U2Z5 bc5MzD0hRh75DuI1cSYSVkDAQI1O/m9cHJwBoLY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APBJJlHiKn7j5WWzEgxNvNr72Vu2KGDmRoPXR1WRANbzM1iFozOT0aD25BGih1J49qmGGo6cSdw34m2CEmGqOWhD9RU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:1816:b0:687:275f:6f8a with SMTP id y22-20020a056a00181600b00687275f6f8amr4437001pfa.7.1690753877116; Sun, 30 Jul 2023 14:51:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a05:6a10:4404:b0:4c1:7ec0:eb04 with HTTP; Sun, 30 Jul 2023 14:51:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Paul Winalski Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2023 17:51:16 -0400 Message-ID: To: segaloco Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Message-ID-Hash: KKCZQEQ62IXXA65BXJFMVPOVKRMCUEJ7 X-Message-ID-Hash: KKCZQEQ62IXXA65BXJFMVPOVKRMCUEJ7 X-MailFrom: paul.winalski@gmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: COFF X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [COFF] Re: Typical Fate of Older Hardware List-Id: Computer Old Farts Forum Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: On 7/29/23, segaloco via COFF wrote: > > Were machines typically offloaded for money to smaller ops, or was it more > common to simply dispose of/recycle components? As a more pointed example, > if you worked in a shop that had IBM S/3x0, PDPs, larger 3B hardware, when > those fell out of use, what was the protocol for getting rid of it? Were > most machines "disposed of" in a complete way, or was it very typical to > parts it out first, meaning most machines that reached EOL simply don't > exist anymore, they weren't moved as a unit, rather, they're any number of > independent parts floating around anywhere from individual collections to > slowly decaying in a landfill somewhere. In the 1970s there was an active market for used IBM gear. Those shops still running second generation computers such as the IBM 1400 and 9000 series were often willing to buy CPUs to cannibalize them for spare parts to keep their own systems running. Otherwise there wasn't much call for second-hand CPUs. Aside from them being much slower, one year's electricity needed to power a second generation CPU could probably pay for a third generation CPU. Peripherals had more of a second hand market. Older card readers, card punches, printers, and tape drives still worked perfectly well with newer hardware. This was especially true of the IBM 1403 printer. This was arguably the best line printer ever made. When System/370 came along, IBM had a newer line printer (the 3203) for it, but nearly everyone (including myself) considered it inferior to the older 1403. I know of one shop that sold off its 1400 system, which had a1401 CPU, 1402 card read/punch, and 1403 printer. The used computer dealer offered them $18,000 for the whole system, or $15,000 just for the 1403 printer. Maintenance and support are, I think, the two main roadblocks to an aftermarket for used computers. By the time a shop decides to upgrade and get rid of its old hardware, it will already be difficult to find a support specialist trained on the gear and to find spare parts. That's why used computers, especially the CPUs, tenddc to become spare parts themselves. -Paul W.