From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 18206 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2021 19:33:46 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Jul 2021 19:33:46 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id D9AD093E27; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 05:33:44 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E76493D56; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 05:33:36 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=gmail.com header.i=@gmail.com header.b="qHqPpNA6"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id C3D5393D56; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 05:33:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-yb1-f171.google.com (mail-yb1-f171.google.com [209.85.219.171]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4245393D2D for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 05:33:34 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-yb1-f171.google.com with SMTP id r132so29506829yba.5 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 12:33:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=kVCuf8J4b//MGkWJN1xwjgajbxFcI71fYB6F+j1Jra0=; b=qHqPpNA6qn4LsrewEMQ+BmDhuc+C1hX7VKt3hMaJQ6tLz5RhRbHPNi+t1Vm5R9zM7x Gk5SGBlo7nKmRBAzaMeLDZrpT7RynC8WC3WyuOx//NEI1KehxmkbYGvNtlVV5R51McGt bJDXw8505OVSSSxz+DqJZG0xNFQh9wsE5z7Qot2WTrVt7MlcxYBy77VU4641o2JWd2Ag JULZ0I1zjgQ/cbSoUXaEZvB/1Y3elBU6PCtwkprYzohhLguC2zhqONcReMdQ/eo2/wf9 qST0A/VWf4kSYnOWhwpE7DbeHUu0eehpk3AGgwTPSRX3mqpbvQ5X/CCXp2Gs2Gz9EGbB wGfg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=kVCuf8J4b//MGkWJN1xwjgajbxFcI71fYB6F+j1Jra0=; b=HUbePWz2GvJjveUIk9kZEkIlupQXRAgouQVvh5KT1cmnbF5FyQ2sF9w8UjlyqCi3gu LRHhqFewxPEI6hmBxMzfRdPrVpuCm0DZ2/rwEQxAxVP3wRuv/NC/QHHfdZN6PWoyxXeP 8m8S7BW3NgRQrtIgcbgw9JFCEOEh9a2iKBOdRcd3hJyBNvCMvg0Qv5hNITI2NKElIvcV 9P1c3tP3YPodasL3LwlmLAHVvJh6IT3a4ZNf5XJUgIu1q3QpwQChAZOkDv6GVAdSPqZO aST/1i0PeqbqYuPCMX5mVgP9hz94LODH6m0vu14TfP26cAtk27AOVAve5XlKY8JkypMw kSUw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530vgFCTqZkG1RzUNGkQH+fKrDhcOrFg/rr79118giiVV1kyMofI OyaZSgk3SkfdIZO2utBvbcRZeq0sDxKXJtFWCUM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyMpAUqeZasyM5d52IOaiOWLYo/ZOuRAJCHIX6RBGPUDCt67RGwRSbuLe0XFIjTrJolhXjNg85TijVi3v1OlA4= X-Received: by 2002:a25:bec2:: with SMTP id k2mr34643413ybm.234.1626723213382; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 12:33:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <57DB6C33-5CE1-4A06-B646-0E5C6707F866@pobox.com> <739a4ab8-352a-060c-115f-e2f14dd7dfc7@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> In-Reply-To: From: "John P. Linderman" Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 15:33:21 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Theodore Y. Ts'o" Subject: Re: [COFF] [TUHS] 386BSD released X-BeenThere: coff@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Computer Old Farts Forum List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: COFF , Grant Taylor Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7894564526858968474==" Errors-To: coff-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "COFF" --===============7894564526858968474== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000048185e05c77f037f" --00000000000048185e05c77f037f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Ted observed: I always thought the implementation of /bin/true, which was a shell script where the license statement proclaiming AT&T's copyright was longer than the "exit 0" line, was both incredibly funny, and incredibly sad. It's been a long time since I looked at the AT&T source, but I recall that the version number was pushing 2 digits. It's hard to get it "wrong" on the first try (although I could possibly do it). More likely, the version numbers reflected changes to the licensing wording. -- jpl On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 1:38 PM Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 10:50:07AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: > > > > Ted -- yes, your generation put a >>name<< to the behavior, which is a > > wonderful thing and something you can be proud. But the behavior of > openly > > sharing your work product with the community long predates, Linux, the > > wider Internet, *et al. * It is sad a minimum, if not downright > > disingenuous to say "open source" was created at that point. > > No one said that "open source" was created at that point. The perl, > BSD, FSF's emacs, gcc, and other software published under the GPL all > predated the definition of the **term** "Open Source". > > However, I strongly contest the claim that Unix was "Open Source". > Unix was the UNPUBLISHED TRADE SECRET of AT&T, and students exposed to > Unix source code became contaminated with AT&T's "methods and > concepts" clause. So they couldn't even *reimplement* Unix without > potentially getting sued by AT&T. > > I always thought the implementation of /bin/true, which was a shell > script where the license statement proclaiming AT&T's copyright was > longer than the "exit 0" line, was both incredibly funny, and > incredibly sad. > > Cheers, > > - Ted > _______________________________________________ > COFF mailing list > COFF@minnie.tuhs.org > https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff > --00000000000048185e05c77f037f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ted= observed:

I always th= ought the implementation of /bin/true, which was a shell
script where the license statemen= t proclaiming AT&T's copyright was
longer than the "exit 0" line, was bo= th incredibly funny, and
incredibly sad.

It's been a long time since I looked a= t the AT&T source, but I recall that
the version number was pushing 2 digits. It's= hard to get it "wrong" on the first try
(although I could possibly do it). More= likely, the version numbers reflected
changes to the licensing wording. -- jpl

<= /div>

On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 1:38 PM Theodore Y. Ts'o <tytso@mit.edu> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 10:50:07AM -0400, = Clem Cole wrote:
>
> Ted -- yes, your generation put a >>name<< to the behavior= , which is a
> wonderful thing and something you can be proud.=C2=A0 But the behavior= of openly
> sharing your work product with the community long predates, Linux, the=
> wider Internet, *et al. * It is sad a minimum, if not downright
> disingenuous to say "open source" was created at that point.=

No one said that "open source" was created at that point.=C2=A0 T= he perl,
BSD, FSF's emacs, gcc, and other software published under the GPL all predated the definition of the **term** "Open Source".

However, I strongly contest the claim that Unix was "Open Source"= .
Unix was the UNPUBLISHED TRADE SECRET of AT&T, and students exposed to<= br> Unix source code became contaminated with AT&T's "methods and<= br> concepts" clause.=C2=A0 So they couldn't even *reimplement* Unix w= ithout
potentially getting sued by AT&T.

I always thought the implementation of /bin/true, which was a shell
script where the license statement proclaiming AT&T's copyright was=
longer than the "exit 0" line, was both incredibly funny, and
incredibly sad.

Cheers,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Ted
_______________________________________________
COFF mailing list
COFF@minnie.tuhs.= org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinf= o/coff
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