[COFF] Re: Fwd: [ih] NYT: Thomas E. Kurtz, a Creator of BASIC Computer Language, Dies at 96

[Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>]

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Indeed.  The problem is it took a life of its own beyond what really should
have been used.  When it was the original Dartmouth K&K language I learned
in 1967 on DTSS it was much simpler.  HP added to it a small amount with
the 2100 implementation and the DEC10 even more so, and by the later RSTS
implementations DEC expanded it and added way more to it than K&K described
in the goals, first papers and book.  Although, with care, the original
examples I think with run on RSTS.

But, in all of those cases there was much more computer behind it and there
was some argument the added complexity was worth it to expose “system’s
features.”

The problem came in that because the core language K&K described was so
simple it was easy to implement on 8-bit systems.  But by then the RSTS
extension had started to become more popular however the 8-bit micros
lacked the systems-ness of even something like RSTS.  The result of the
micro versions of BASIC was Frankenstein’s creature - which was really hard
to love unless you knew no better.

And here in was the issue, because the micros were inexpensive and they all
included a simple BASIC you sort of warped a generation or two without real
guidance.  And because there was little standardization in the system
interface anyway, what you saw was more and more ugliness.  By the time the
micros grew up enough to support more system features, MS was full bore
into trying to own everything so there private extensions became
‘standardize in there world but no where else.”

And MS eventually gave away the primary idea behind K&K in the first place
- really simple, so any one could use it.  Thus make it a good first
language. But try running any of the K&K examples from there book (I still
have a copy btw) with VBASIC.

By then teacher has given up and switched to better teaching languages, al
biet, ones that did require a bit more computer system to expose.

Clem




Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual


On Sun, Nov 17, 2024 at 4:33 PM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't believe this was sent here yet. BASIC is much maligned, but was
> important nonetheless.
>
>         - Dan C.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Tony Patti via Internet-history <internet-history@elists.isoc.org>
> Date: Sun, Nov 17, 2024, 3:50 PM
> Subject: [ih] NYT: Thomas E. Kurtz, a Creator of BASIC Computer Language,
> Dies at 96
> To: <internet-history@elists.isoc.org>
>
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/16/technology/thomas-kurtz-dead.html
>
> (published yesterday November 16, 2024)
>
>
>
> "At Dartmouth, long before the days of laptops and smartphones,
>
> he worked to give more students access to computers.
>
> That work helped propel generations into a new world."
>
>
>
> Me too, I owe it all to BASIC.
>
> Because 5 decades earlier, via an ASR 33 Teletype and acoustic coupler at
> 110 baud
>
> to a remote HP 2100, BASIC was my introduction to computers and
> programming.
>
>
>
> Tony Patti
>
> (ARPAnet NIC IDENT "TP4")
>
>
>
> --
> Internet-history mailing list
> Internet-history@elists.isoc.org
> https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history
>

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