From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_FONT_LOW_CONTRAST,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 23760 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2021 20:22:17 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 19 Jul 2021 20:22:17 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 6574A93E24; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 06:22:16 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B18E093D65; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 06:22:10 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (1024-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccc.com header.i=@ccc.com header.b="X3ds7h8u"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id 1205393D65; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 06:22:09 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-qv1-f51.google.com (mail-qv1-f51.google.com [209.85.219.51]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CD7B93D56 for ; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 06:22:08 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-qv1-f51.google.com with SMTP id i4so9040560qvq.10 for ; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 13:22:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2DqVGjwD+1zRu4fzEsSVnWphEZcwR3lLtxmSi+Mqo4s=; b=X3ds7h8uxTbea3HFNKqMlFX015m1yRRjdiw2HCq8zJqYBhYA9a/iXenyX2y6tI8+TT jhbIN4BHH/MIUhrheC6OBr5Nt1VSQLRt+jKhbQ9nftRlkUk+QE3xgOebDYX7eeAx9CIe LrDuT5j9IziflRbr3762wjFjFneUpqiASDOgU= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2DqVGjwD+1zRu4fzEsSVnWphEZcwR3lLtxmSi+Mqo4s=; b=AlTN9ge3ffsT9+9iNAS0ERB843UyxMYjBZfpUx+Ipqwtih2Q4p55f8xw8ojDGbzIR+ 1LooNodxc9lE1JIWaEk9xGyUZtlYM8pduz+Os95asar5WK1O7XWLBOq/Q+jr4ghPSx34 vAgZL1EQeZgDd7cGkNqqbCGROxg/63MMWMt49hUawH4EdxOmrln/P9/OxSJH9Ldy2Q6j uYvdawW8M6fmNV0o0BqQMbs0oWL40aIu6cWLPdrLZmMtfNfmi2W0GaV3zI9ZfGIQ/mTE D3FtDINe+uTQJxJFpFADCDeC1dE2DmWENDSKl0qpxwgp1DfdvD1x0n5ME5lwekTeXLYX sfvg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5332jhnj0M8X3YqMHG3UyD7tcuqi/VZIn4H0ccjBWORfMJggSiGo pg2Kpk5z5QVWtiNlF/zucxEKSvlfqtS7pLzSOYDM0A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxvANf0SqT0bwLXumpNSdxMvOoiQZsHs1apH/Oer1Qvf/iMLZNPOTtHydqW7mq8OEtO6lIlQAVH6eUADiztJy4= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:f6c6:: with SMTP id d6mr26687409qvo.30.1626726127048; Mon, 19 Jul 2021 13:22:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <57DB6C33-5CE1-4A06-B646-0E5C6707F866@pobox.com> <739a4ab8-352a-060c-115f-e2f14dd7dfc7@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2021 16:21:40 -0400 Message-ID: To: "John P. Linderman" Subject: Re: [COFF] [TUHS] 386BSD released X-BeenThere: coff@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Computer Old Farts Forum List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: COFF , Grant Taylor Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8663015108800041888==" Errors-To: coff-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "COFF" --===============8663015108800041888== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f331c005c77fb063" --000000000000f331c005c77fb063 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And remember add in the copyright to that does not come about until much, much later in UNIX's life. After Judge Green and after the cat was out of the bag, and when AT&T was allowed to be in the computer business. Pre Judge Green - if you go in the V7 source that Warren has you will see: [ctcole-mac09:ResearchEditions/v7_SeventhEdition/V7_FileTree] ctcole% cat bin/true [ctcole-mac09:ResearchEditions/v7_SeventhEdition/V7_FileTree] ctcole% cat bin/false exit 1 [ctcole-mac09:ResearchEditions/v7_SeventhEdition/V7_FileTree] ctcole% ll bin/{false,true} -rwxrwxr-x 1 ctcole staff - 7 Jan 10 1979 bin/false -rwxrwxr-x 1 ctcole staff - 0 Jan 10 1979 bin/true =E1=90=A7 On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 3:33 PM John P. Linderman wrote= : > Ted observed: > > I always thought the implementation of /bin/true, which was a shell > script where the license statement proclaiming AT&T's copyright was > longer than the "exit 0" line, was both incredibly funny, and > incredibly sad. > > > It's been a long time since I looked at the AT&T source, but I recall tha= t > the version number was pushing 2 digits. It's hard to get it "wrong" on > the first try > (although I could possibly do it). More likely, the version numbers > reflected > changes to the licensing wording. -- jpl > > > On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 1:38 PM Theodore Y. Ts'o wrote: > >> On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 10:50:07AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote: >> > >> > Ted -- yes, your generation put a >>name<< to the behavior, which is a >> > wonderful thing and something you can be proud. But the behavior of >> openly >> > sharing your work product with the community long predates, Linux, the >> > wider Internet, *et al. * It is sad a minimum, if not downright >> > disingenuous to say "open source" was created at that point. >> >> No one said that "open source" was created at that point. The perl, >> BSD, FSF's emacs, gcc, and other software published under the GPL all >> predated the definition of the **term** "Open Source". >> >> However, I strongly contest the claim that Unix was "Open Source". >> Unix was the UNPUBLISHED TRADE SECRET of AT&T, and students exposed to >> Unix source code became contaminated with AT&T's "methods and >> concepts" clause. So they couldn't even *reimplement* Unix without >> potentially getting sued by AT&T. >> >> I always thought the implementation of /bin/true, which was a shell >> script where the license statement proclaiming AT&T's copyright was >> longer than the "exit 0" line, was both incredibly funny, and >> incredibly sad. >> >> Cheers, >> >> - Ted >> _______________________________________________ >> COFF mailing list >> COFF@minnie.tuhs.org >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff >> > --000000000000f331c005c77fb063 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
And=C2=A0remember add in the copyright to that does not= come about until much, much later in UNIX's=C2=A0life.=C2=A0 After Jud= ge Green and after the cat was out of the bag, and when AT&T was allowe= d to be in the computer business.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Pre Judge=C2=A0Green - if you= go in the V7 source that Warren has you will see:

[ctcole-mac09:ResearchEditions/v7_SeventhEdition/V7_FileTree= ] ctcole%=C2=A0cat bin/true
[ctcole-mac09:ResearchEditions/v7_SeventhEdi= tion/V7_FileTree] ctcole% cat bin/false
exit 1
[ctcole-mac09:Research= Editions/v7_SeventhEdition/V7_FileTree] ctcole% ll bin/{false,true}
-rwx= rwxr-x =C2=A01 ctcole =C2=A0staff =C2=A0- 7 Jan 10 =C2=A01979 bin/false
= -rwxrwxr-x =C2=A01 ctcole =C2=A0staff =C2=A0- 0 Jan 10 =C2=A01979 bin/true<= /font>
3D""=E1=90=A7


On Mon, Jul 19, 20= 21 at 10:50:07AM -0400, Clem Cole wrote:
>
> Ted -- yes, your generation put a >>name<< to the behavior= , which is a
> wonderful thing and something you can be proud.=C2=A0 But the behavior= of openly
> sharing your work product with the community long predates, Linux, the=
> wider Internet, *et al. * It is sad a minimum, if not downright
> disingenuous to say "open source" was created at that point.=

No one said that "open source" was created at that point.=C2=A0 T= he perl,
BSD, FSF's emacs, gcc, and other software published under the GPL all predated the definition of the **term** "Open Source".

However, I strongly contest the claim that Unix was "Open Source"= .
Unix was the UNPUBLISHED TRADE SECRET of AT&T, and students exposed to<= br> Unix source code became contaminated with AT&T's "methods and<= br> concepts" clause.=C2=A0 So they couldn't even *reimplement* Unix w= ithout
potentially getting sued by AT&T.

I always thought the implementation of /bin/true, which was a shell
script where the license statement proclaiming AT&T's copyright was=
longer than the "exit 0" line, was both incredibly funny, and
incredibly sad.

Cheers,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Ted
_______________________________________________
COFF mailing list
COFF@minnie.tuhs.= org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinf= o/coff
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