From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,HTML_MESSAGE,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (minnie.tuhs.org [IPv6:2600:3c01:e000:146::1]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D09ED264EF for ; Sat, 11 May 2024 21:25:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38BF14364F; Sun, 12 May 2024 05:24:59 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-yw1-x1129.google.com (mail-yw1-x1129.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1129]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E352943646 for ; Sun, 12 May 2024 05:24:51 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-yw1-x1129.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-6209e8a0386so24127377b3.0 for ; Sat, 11 May 2024 12:24:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccc.com; s=google; t=1715455491; x=1716060291; darn=tuhs.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=YfdHfLZJiqYeB4WsMw2MX5aL08EyFg5R2uStuoNF7VM=; b=VKmxemr1sFJIZD6Ew+90V4bk9TPDSZA3a3HAPhRvxaazbnAnHLiaL2PG6eWr7d6gWf HHLNlbSdpIXu4Ww0gXKPyDjo5JU0xsoCx1sFJ4/ThMfgsBxYOawUAiwicnvsCONK1THH r6T3wIxagZJbAPzoHDEdS49kLAa4vKGw/thCk= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1715455491; x=1716060291; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=YfdHfLZJiqYeB4WsMw2MX5aL08EyFg5R2uStuoNF7VM=; b=bnvp2wPSDSpCNmY0fZD0li0rq7ifZ/b74zrRoIL5ai3z+nLg3PrYEg7APp3mcAVLxg epWbiizVVLifx1aqTNBWOYLGU/sB2nQLMQ73IYKxMKPWy3Be+mbi2KNZWhpfyBeE1eTF vgC+vXhe30FiCC6muA2a2YeqOX3010jiLnMBkIk5ztXHVDULZZjLPHPQZwgZmMsnA2fh GTEEulpr1XaJiM4YatGeFnKY+sGd8snOVDxmyl8soZFaGvRLceD3giJDqxERNodn5WQ/ QzKdfnEm756twSeaV1Bcsk49rFeF3GhFM103nffuzpkfiyjUD8nJz1h2LYYCxoFQY7gg SJ2g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz+YUT7tfGZG0VRNOiZVxT8X5C0blSWwhTweL4hrOQO/WxQPOiM C5eKEWCtjDc68vHURZHGs1kE+gF0nYWnAEIXa0qO2PtuzomN6D6asf7LoAl8faQbbnVUnRucHpK bXF03D7o59su9EloXO3pwgZIix1m1QiVs+jXQ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF/UVwovg8YLs4DSvogee71qKF/Tj0ySscfz+o8YeCYJZwkfvJ81ZTnmCcBMeQZUapcisD5FVQzknzvuTfM2HQ= X-Received: by 2002:a81:924e:0:b0:618:8d34:5917 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-622aff7e7c0mr67992367b3.10.1715455489258; Sat, 11 May 2024 12:24:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clem Cole Date: Sat, 11 May 2024 15:24:13 -0400 Message-ID: To: nliber@gmail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000010d6310618329b3f" Message-ID-Hash: 6LBWRISFRRDRW2RAS6LJ2VMPZW552VNG X-Message-ID-Hash: 6LBWRISFRRDRW2RAS6LJ2VMPZW552VNG X-MailFrom: clemc@ccc.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: coff@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [COFF] Re: [TUHS] On Bloat and the Idea of Small Specialized Tools List-Id: Computer Old Farts Forum Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --00000000000010d6310618329b3f Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 7:23=E2=80=AFPM Nevin Liber wrot= e: > On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 11:37=E2=80=AFAM Clem Cole wrote: > >> The key is that not all "bloat" is the same (really)=E2=80=94or maybe on= e >> person's bloat is another person's preference. >> > > A lot of "bloat" comes because our systems really aren't focused on > "discoverability". > > While I probably have used "pr" in the past, I've totally forgotten, the > name "pr" doesn't really help me understand what it is for, and it's just > one of 982 files in my /usr/bin directory alone. How does one discover i= t? > Chapter 1, Page 15 of Kernigahan and Pike -- "The Unix Programming Environment" It's still the best book for learning, regardless if Linux is your preferred UNIX implementation. > > It's like using "sed" instead of "head": sure, if you already know "sed", > you don't need "head", but for English speaking folks who know "tail" is > there, it would be (and was in the old days) surprising and frustrating n= ot > to have "head". > Hmmm.. date on 1BSD tape for head is Nov 23, 1977. It's been around since the Sixth Edition. And again - this is my observation - some tools are easier to use, and the head is easier than a sed script. One can argue a shell script that exec's sed for you would have been sufficient to Joy's program. However, in wnj's defense, he wrote it for sed was not part of the Sixth Edition. --00000000000010d6310618329b3f Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 7:23= =E2=80=AFPM Nevin Liber <nliber@gmai= l.com> wrote:
On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 11:37=E2=80= =AFAM Clem Cole <clem= c@ccc.com> wrote:
= T= he key is that not all "bloat" is the same (really)=E2=80=94or ma= ybe one person's bloat is another person's preference.

A lot of "bloat"= comes because our systems really aren't focused on "discoverabili= ty".

While I probably have=C2=A0used "pr= " in the past, I've totally=C2=A0forgotten, the name "pr"= ; doesn't really help me understand what it is for, and it's just o= ne of 982 files in my /usr/bin directory alone.=C2=A0 How does one discover= it?
Chapter= 1, Page 15 of Kernigahan=C2=A0and Pike -- "The Unix Programming Envir= onment"=C2=A0

=
It's still the bes= t book for learning, regardless if Linux is your preferred=C2=A0UNIX implem= entation.
=C2=A0

It's like using "sed"= ; instead of "head": sure, if you already know "sed", y= ou don't need "head", but for English speaking folks who know= "tail" is there, it would be (and was in the old days) surprisin= g and frustrating not to have "head".
Hmmm..=C2=A0 date on 1BSD tape for head= is Nov 23, 1977.=C2=A0=C2=A0It's been around since the Sixt= h Edition.
And again - = this is my observation - some tools are easier to use, and the head is easi= er than a sed script.=C2=A0 One can argue a shell script that exec's se= d for you would have been sufficient to Joy's program.
However, in wnj's=C2=A0defense, he = wrote it for sed was not part of the Sixth Edition.



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