From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,LOTS_OF_MONEY,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 26804 invoked from network); 23 Dec 2021 16:14:48 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (45.79.103.53) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 23 Dec 2021 16:14:48 -0000 Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id E22699CEAD; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 02:14:46 +1000 (AEST) Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E4D69CE21; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 02:14:41 +1000 (AEST) Authentication-Results: minnie.tuhs.org; dkim=fail reason="signature verification failed" (2048-bit key; unprotected) header.d=ccil-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.i=@ccil-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com header.b="NMsTrXl7"; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix, from userid 112) id B87429CE21; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 02:14:39 +1000 (AEST) Received: from mail-wm1-f42.google.com (mail-wm1-f42.google.com [209.85.128.42]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 660639CC00 for ; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 02:14:38 +1000 (AEST) Received: by mail-wm1-f42.google.com with SMTP id n10-20020a7bc5ca000000b00345c520d38eso3157531wmk.1 for ; Thu, 23 Dec 2021 08:14:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ccil-org.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=+aH4aEKC/fJg+hPVUkRPZemI6EXMTHyxE2zY0qGsYQE=; b=NMsTrXl71wlFdsfEPorAmHpZ532Yqq4IgBR+WypFjwWO9tbVF/pg4s/FApZt5wtMaF wR8zJbErbOLHQ9p6ziBpD6m0Z2ozyWKOWGI36xwsxJ3M0IJIrPjM9uMopR983uv1QsBZ diSCypeTbFoPuSwPPRM123BwUEtwZbS+vf4X9p71GY8KM1AUJ4fY/ma7jyfwfq2Oglw6 I0nT4IdIe0dR+OvJmPf75Nz12UqtArDPpPPV+vmhvAkmRuCPshO9M7+GSH+Hm394nnsz yVEo+b/sCAiQ1ipWLIpzuFXgxKevDNFqhID3RZ6LR6P7QE0KO16pUKZzwr3i4oG2IJ0g fTjA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+aH4aEKC/fJg+hPVUkRPZemI6EXMTHyxE2zY0qGsYQE=; b=DAd/fBlK79hst1E6ZArbZzrsH63EBa3t4cROdi+UGE6YocUeGeWVh6lJ9v9S4zFLuf UTNBnxwhQYEDMRnpgwDY33D6wrjCxntk75i+QNGc54mkizXVZVpoJ5AvF4jfW6TlO+2U F0KOAtZ7pTKKfm6xrszpayVr4pgd4rRgYuJO/5DvNfAz/3NDoggGE/yu43TBiulyn+6w llqf4bxiLffZGraHn/aNYjI2IzZK4izEoxi5NYjqnyx+ZFFdU7w5hPJzYRpKW+uI2kWQ NgxK6sDtiN1vthpDOtN39X3y5cjB7q23DafZ8sqvD/KPSnRS3UfdnNqPlAcAQBsv5hQF mWtQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531qT6B+4lj3cr7O5mLsA7Z8PIkGyZUDTGlnpzc9JqoHfQFOkHVF Kr6j/kFXrMFL3YlPKDn39DH18NEfVQWBI0HSo9ljxRlS22QWUw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJza9Ao6LwEoS6iiedpgulrylDLXaR+o+uHLSqt9WUNTKgHyHRcufmcyHOkN/tvppnSiJuTxN0T4sSMsq6H0n5U= X-Received: by 2002:a7b:ce01:: with SMTP id m1mr2295319wmc.187.1640276076830; Thu, 23 Dec 2021 08:14:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20201222224306.GA28478@minnie.tuhs.org> <202012230546.0BN5kDwe028815@sdf.org> <1653639b-8e41-7437-8c0e-32564dfdd788@laposte.net> <20211221162139.GP24180@mcvoy.com> <9e3b9669-6ffc-2701-bdcb-e287495419c0@spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net> In-Reply-To: From: John Cowan Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2021 11:14:25 -0500 Message-ID: To: jason-tuhs@shalott.net Subject: Re: [COFF] [TUHS] ksh88 source code? X-BeenThere: coff@minnie.tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: Computer Old Farts Forum List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: COFF Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2934140342199045906==" Errors-To: coff-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org Sender: "COFF" --===============2934140342199045906== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e4b71a05d3d28806" --000000000000e4b71a05d3d28806 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" -tuhs +coff On Wed, Dec 22, 2021 at 1:30 AM wrote: > As a vendor or distributor, you would care. Anyone doing an OS or other > software distribution (think the BSDs, of course; There is no legal reason why the BSDs can't distribute GPLed software; indeed, they did so for many years. Their objection is purely ideological. > but also think Apple or > Microsoft) needs to care. Apple and Microsoft can buy up, outspend, out-lawyer, or just outwait anyone suing them for infringement. Their only reasons for not doing so are reputational. > Anyone selling a hardware device with embedded > software (think switches/routers; think IOT devices; think consumer > devices like DVRs; etc) needs to care. Only if they are determined to infringe. Obeying the GPL's rules (most often for BusyBox) is straightforward, and the vast majority of infringers (per the FSF's legal team) are not aware that they have done anything wrong and are willing to comply once notified, which cures the defect (much less of a penalty than for most infringements). The ex-infringers do not seem to consider this a serious competitive disadvantage. GPL licensors are generous sharers, but you have to be willing to share yourself. I saw this dynamic in action while working for Reuters; we were licensing our health-related news to websites, and I would occasionally google for fragments of our articles. When I found one on a site I didn't recognize, I'd pass the website to Sales, who would sweetly point out that infringement could cost them up to $15,000 per article, and for a very reasonable price.... They were happy to sign up once they were made aware that just because something is available on the Internet doesn't mean you can republish it on your site. GPL (or similar "virally" > licensed) software carries legal implications for anyone selling or > distributing products that contain such software; and this can be a > motivation to use software with less-restrictive license terms. Only to the victims of FUD. Reusing source code is one thing: repackaging programs is another. I'll say no more about this here. --000000000000e4b71a05d3d28806 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
-tuhs=C2=A0+coff

On We= d, Dec 22, 2021 at 1:30 AM <ja= son-tuhs@shalott.net> wrote:
=C2=A0
As a vendor or distributor, you would = care.=C2=A0 Anyone doing an OS or other
software distribution (think the BSDs, of course;

There is no legal reason why the BSDs can&= #39;t distribute GPLed software; indeed, they did so for many years.=C2=A0 = Their objection is purely ideological.
=C2=A0
but also think Apple or
Microsoft) needs to care.=C2=A0
Apple and Microsoft can = buy up, outspend, out-lawyer, or just outwait anyone suing them for infring= ement.=C2=A0 Their only reasons for not doing so are reputational.
=C2=A0
Anyone selling a hardware device with embedded
software (think switches/routers; think IOT devices; think consumer
devices like DVRs; etc) needs to care.

Only if they are determined to infringe.=C2=A0 Obeying the= GPL's rules (most often for BusyBox) is straightforward, and the vast = majority of infringers (per the FSF's legal team) are not aware that th= ey have done anything wrong and are willing to comply once notified, which = cures the defect (much less of a penalty than for most infringements).=C2= =A0 The ex-infringers do not seem to consider this=C2=A0a serious competiti= ve disadvantage.=C2=A0 GPL licensors=C2=A0are generous sharers, but you hav= e to be willing to share yourself.

I saw this dynamic in=C2=A0action while working= for Reuters; we were licensing our health-related news to websites,=C2=A0a= nd I would occasionally google for fragments of our=C2=A0articles.=C2=A0 Wh= en I found one on=C2=A0a site I didn't recognize, I'd pass the webs= ite to Sales, who would sweetly point out that infringement could cost them= up to $15,000 per article,=C2=A0and for=C2=A0a very reasonable price....= =C2=A0 They were happy to sign up once they were made=C2=A0aware that just = because something is available on the Internet doesn't mean you can rep= ublish it on your site.

GPL (or similar "virally"=
licensed) software carries legal implications for anyone selling or
distributing products that contain such software; and this can be a
motivation to use software with less-restrictive license terms.

Only to the victims of FUD.=C2=A0= Reusing source code is one thing: repackaging programs is=C2=A0another.

I'll= say no more=C2=A0about this here.
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