* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Be there a "remote diff" utility? [not found] ` <20240516073351.267351FAE3@orac.inputplus.co.uk> @ 2024-05-16 11:51 ` John Cowan 2024-05-16 13:45 ` Dan Cross 0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: John Cowan @ 2024-05-16 11:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: coff [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2411 bytes --] The Newcastle Connection, aka Unix United, was an early experiment in transparent networking: see < https://web.archive.org/web/20160816184205/http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/research/pubs/articles/papers/399.pdf> for a high-level description. A name of the form "/../host/path" represented a file or device on a remote host in a fully transparent way. This was layered on V7 at the libc level, so that the kernel did not need to be modified (though the shell did, since it was not libc-based at the time). MUNIX was an implementation of the same idea using System V as the underlying system. This appears to be a VHS vs. Betamax battle: NFS was not transparent, but Sun had far more marketing clout. However, the Manchester Connection required a single uid space (as far as I can tell), which may also have been a (perceived) institutional barrier. On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 3:34 AM Ralph Corderoy <ralph@inputplus.co.uk> wrote: > Hi, > > I've set ‘mail-followup-to: coff@tuhs.org’. > > > > Every so often I want to compare files on remote machines, but all > > > I can do is to fetch them first (usually into /tmp); I'd like to do > > > something like: > > > > > > rdiff host1:file1 host2:file2 > > > > > > Breathes there such a beast? > > No, nor should there. It would be slain less it beget rcmp, rcomm, > rpaste, ... > > > > Think of it as an extension to the Unix philosophy of "Everything > > > looks like a file"... > > Then make remote files look local as far as their access is concerned. > Ideally at the system-call level. Less ideal, at libc.a. > > > Maybe > > > > diff -u <(ssh host1 cat file1) <(ssh host2 cat file2) > > This is annoyingly noisy if the remote SSH server has sshd_config(5)'s > ‘Banner’ set which spews the contents of a file before authentication, > e.g. the pointless > > This computer system is the property of ... > > Disconnect NOW if you have not been expressly authorised to use this > system. Unauthorised use is a criminal offence under the Computer > Misuse Act 1990. > > Communications on or through ...uk's computer systems may be > monitored or recorded to secure effective system operation and for > other lawful purposes. > > It appears on stderr so doesn't upset the diff but does clutter. > And discarding stderr is too sloppy. > > -- > Cheers, Ralph. > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3361 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Be there a "remote diff" utility? 2024-05-16 11:51 ` [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Be there a "remote diff" utility? John Cowan @ 2024-05-16 13:45 ` Dan Cross 2024-05-16 14:03 ` Larry McVoy 2024-05-16 14:43 ` John Cowan 0 siblings, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Dan Cross @ 2024-05-16 13:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: John Cowan; +Cc: coff On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 7:51 AM John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote: > [snip] > This appears to be a VHS vs. Betamax battle: NFS was not transparent, but Sun had far more marketing clout. However, the Manchester Connection required a single uid space (as far as I can tell), which may also have been a (perceived) institutional barrier. So did NFS, for that matter. This is one of those areas where Unix appears creaky in comparison to Plan 9. `ssh` is all about remote access to resources, whereas plan 9 was all about resource sharing: you'd set up a namespace with all of the resources (exposed as files from wherever they ultimately came from) you cared about, and then operate on those "locally"; the resources were shared with you and access was transparent, via a consistent, file-based interface. You want to `diff` two remote files? Import the filesystems they're both on, mount those somewhere, and `diff /n/host1/file /n/host2/file`. I think the `sshfs`+FUSE model that Doug mentioned is about the closest you're going to get these days. - Dan C. - Dan C. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Be there a "remote diff" utility? 2024-05-16 13:45 ` Dan Cross @ 2024-05-16 14:03 ` Larry McVoy 2024-05-16 14:43 ` John Cowan 1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Larry McVoy @ 2024-05-16 14:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dan Cross; +Cc: John Cowan, coff On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 09:45:38AM -0400, Dan Cross wrote: > On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 7:51???AM John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote: > > [snip] > > This appears to be a VHS vs. Betamax battle: NFS was not transparent, but Sun had far more marketing clout. However, the Manchester Connection required a single uid space (as far as I can tell), which may also have been a (perceived) institutional barrier. > > So did NFS, for that matter. > > This is one of those areas where Unix appears creaky in comparison to > Plan 9. `ssh` is all about remote access to resources, whereas plan 9 > was all about resource sharing: you'd set up a namespace with all of > the resources (exposed as files from wherever they ultimately came > from) you cared about, and then operate on those "locally"; the > resources were shared with you and access was transparent, via a > consistent, file-based interface. You want to `diff` two remote files? > Import the filesystems they're both on, mount those somewhere, and > `diff /n/host1/file /n/host2/file`. If you are all trusting, behind a firewall, like the Sun campus was: diff /net/host1/file /net/host2/file Seems pretty darn similar and you don't set up a namespace other than saying what you want to share in /etc/exports. Seems far from creaky to me, no root access required (other than setting up /etc/exports), any user can access any exported file. I was at Sun and it worked great. Granted, you needed a working NFS implementation and when I left Sun I found that Sun was really the only place that got that right in the 1990's. Linux has caught up, don't know about the rest. --lm ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Be there a "remote diff" utility? 2024-05-16 13:45 ` Dan Cross 2024-05-16 14:03 ` Larry McVoy @ 2024-05-16 14:43 ` John Cowan 2024-05-16 14:49 ` Dan Cross 1 sibling, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread From: John Cowan @ 2024-05-16 14:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dan Cross; +Cc: coff [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1345 bytes --] NFS v4 provides idmapping between client uids/gids and their server equivalents using a config file. On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 9:46 AM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 7:51 AM John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote: > > [snip] > > This appears to be a VHS vs. Betamax battle: NFS was not transparent, > but Sun had far more marketing clout. However, the Manchester Connection > required a single uid space (as far as I can tell), which may also have > been a (perceived) institutional barrier. > > So did NFS, for that matter. > > This is one of those areas where Unix appears creaky in comparison to > Plan 9. `ssh` is all about remote access to resources, whereas plan 9 > was all about resource sharing: you'd set up a namespace with all of > the resources (exposed as files from wherever they ultimately came > from) you cared about, and then operate on those "locally"; the > resources were shared with you and access was transparent, via a > consistent, file-based interface. You want to `diff` two remote files? > Import the filesystems they're both on, mount those somewhere, and > `diff /n/host1/file /n/host2/file`. > > I think the `sshfs`+FUSE model that Doug mentioned is about the > closest you're going to get these days. > > - Dan C. > > > - Dan C. > [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1947 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Be there a "remote diff" utility? 2024-05-16 14:43 ` John Cowan @ 2024-05-16 14:49 ` Dan Cross 0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Dan Cross @ 2024-05-16 14:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: John Cowan; +Cc: coff On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 10:44 AM John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote: > NFS v4 provides idmapping between client uids/gids and their server equivalents using a config file. NFS v4 came much later, of course. But even earlier NFS implementations provided something like this, and UID 0 has been mapped to "nobody" for many decades. But that's not terribly relevant; the point is that, by default, the NFS protocol relies on UIDs having meaning, as opposed to properly authenticated principles independent of the underlying implementation of "identity", as in e.g. AFS. To be fair, it's my understanding that NFSv4 _does_ improve on the situation here. - Dan C. > On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 9:46 AM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 7:51 AM John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote: >> > [snip] >> > This appears to be a VHS vs. Betamax battle: NFS was not transparent, but Sun had far more marketing clout. However, the Manchester Connection required a single uid space (as far as I can tell), which may also have been a (perceived) institutional barrier. >> >> So did NFS, for that matter. >> >> This is one of those areas where Unix appears creaky in comparison to >> Plan 9. `ssh` is all about remote access to resources, whereas plan 9 >> was all about resource sharing: you'd set up a namespace with all of >> the resources (exposed as files from wherever they ultimately came >> from) you cared about, and then operate on those "locally"; the >> resources were shared with you and access was transparent, via a >> consistent, file-based interface. You want to `diff` two remote files? >> Import the filesystems they're both on, mount those somewhere, and >> `diff /n/host1/file /n/host2/file`. >> >> I think the `sshfs`+FUSE model that Doug mentioned is about the >> closest you're going to get these days. >> >> - Dan C. >> >> >> - Dan C. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2024-05-16 14:49 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2405161623130.15285@aneurin.horsfall.org> [not found] ` <202405160651.44G6pi8G018059@freefriends.org> [not found] ` <20240516073351.267351FAE3@orac.inputplus.co.uk> 2024-05-16 11:51 ` [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: Be there a "remote diff" utility? John Cowan 2024-05-16 13:45 ` Dan Cross 2024-05-16 14:03 ` Larry McVoy 2024-05-16 14:43 ` John Cowan 2024-05-16 14:49 ` Dan Cross
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