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* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: project athena (was Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS)
       [not found]         ` <Y+Rfo2QQf9vcs+l1@mit.edu>
@ 2023-02-10  6:19           ` Lars Brinkhoff
       [not found]             ` <Y+X1ulTtZRoKHCRO@largo.jsg.id.au>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Brinkhoff @ 2023-02-10  6:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Theodore Ts'o; +Cc: Jonathan Gray, coff

s/TUHS/COFF/

Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> The only I saw were PC/AT's (that is, the ones with the '286 CPU) that
> ran DOS and which were essentially used only to telnet to the Vax
> 750's (or supdup to the MIT AI / LCS lab machines, but most
> undergraduates didn't have access to those computers

Any chance this DOS supdup software is still around?
Was it part of PC/TCP?  I searched around and found this:
https://windowsbulletin.com/files/exe/ftp-software-inc/pc-tcp

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: project athena (was Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS)
       [not found]             ` <Y+X1ulTtZRoKHCRO@largo.jsg.id.au>
@ 2023-02-10 10:12               ` Lars Brinkhoff
  2023-02-10 15:25                 ` Warner Losh
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Brinkhoff @ 2023-02-10 10:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jonathan Gray; +Cc: coff

Jonathan Gray wrote:
>> Any chance this DOS supdup software is still around?
>
> https://web.mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/pcip-1985.pdf
> http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/MIT/pc-ip/

Great, thanks!

It's a bit sad to read in supdup.mss "Unfortunately, very few machines
have TCP/Supdup servers.  The only servers known to us are on Mit-MC and
Su-AI, and 4.2 Unix machines running a server we distribute."  At this
point, three old ITS machines had recently fallen over, one after the
other, and MC was the only one left standing.  But not long after, four
new ones would appear.  One of which is still up and running!

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: project athena (was Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS)
  2023-02-10 10:12               ` Lars Brinkhoff
@ 2023-02-10 15:25                 ` Warner Losh
  2023-02-10 15:33                   ` Dan Cross
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2023-02-10 15:25 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Lars Brinkhoff; +Cc: Jonathan Gray, Computer Old Farts Followers

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On Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 3:12 AM Lars Brinkhoff <lars@nocrew.org> wrote:

> Jonathan Gray wrote:
> >> Any chance this DOS supdup software is still around?
> >
> > https://web.mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/pcip-1985.pdf
> > http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/MIT/pc-ip/
>
> Great, thanks!
>
> It's a bit sad to read in supdup.mss "Unfortunately, very few machines
> have TCP/Supdup servers.  The only servers known to us are on Mit-MC and
> Su-AI, and 4.2 Unix machines running a server we distribute."  At this
> point, three old ITS machines had recently fallen over, one after the
> other, and MC was the only one left standing.  But not long after, four
> new ones would appear.  One of which is still up and running!
>


I wonder if this was the same supdup that the early BSDs used to distribute
their source in the 90s ..

Warner

>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: project athena (was Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS)
  2023-02-10 15:25                 ` Warner Losh
@ 2023-02-10 15:33                   ` Dan Cross
  2023-02-10 15:44                     ` Clem Cole
                                       ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Dan Cross @ 2023-02-10 15:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Warner Losh; +Cc: Jonathan Gray, Computer Old Farts Followers

On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 10:26 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 3:12 AM Lars Brinkhoff <lars@nocrew.org> wrote:
>> Jonathan Gray wrote:
>> >> Any chance this DOS supdup software is still around?
>> >
>> > https://web.mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/pcip-1985.pdf
>> > http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/MIT/pc-ip/
>>
>> Great, thanks!
>>
>> It's a bit sad to read in supdup.mss "Unfortunately, very few machines
>> have TCP/Supdup servers.  The only servers known to us are on Mit-MC and
>> Su-AI, and 4.2 Unix machines running a server we distribute."  At this
>> point, three old ITS machines had recently fallen over, one after the
>> other, and MC was the only one left standing.  But not long after, four
>> new ones would appear.  One of which is still up and running!
>
> I wonder if this was the same supdup that the early BSDs used to distribute their source in the 90s ..

I believe they are entirely different.

If I recall correctly (and it's been a while...) csup, CVSup, et al
were based on `sup`, which was a file distribution tool somewhat like
`rdist`, which came from CMU. csup/cvsup was optimized for moving
source code deltas (a la CVS repositories) around. I recall a
graphical client written in Modula-3?

The SUPDUP protocol used by ITS hosts was a "Display Protocol" based
on TELNET: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc734

I think the similarity in naming was just a coincidence.

        - Dan C.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: project athena (was Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS)
  2023-02-10 15:33                   ` Dan Cross
@ 2023-02-10 15:44                     ` Clem Cole
  2023-02-10 17:19                       ` Dan Cross
  2023-02-10 18:21                     ` Lars Brinkhoff
  2023-02-10 18:34                     ` Warner Losh
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Clem Cole @ 2023-02-10 15:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Cross; +Cc: Jonathan Gray, Computer Old Farts Followers

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On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 10:34 AM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:

> If I recall correctly (and it's been a while...) csup, CVSup, et al
> were based on `sup`, which was a file distribution tool somewhat like
> `rdist`, which came from CMU. csup/cvsup was optimized for moving
> source code deltas (a la CVS repositories) around. I recall a
> graphical client written in Modula-3?
>
Right -- ??maybe?? Bob Baron or one of the Mach guys did it  - used the DEC
Modula-3 IIRC.

>
> The SUPDUP protocol used by ITS hosts was a "Display Protocol" based
> on TELNET: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc734

Exactly - popular with the LISP hackers.  I started to implement it in the
CMU Distributed Front-End years ago but never finished it - I don't know if
it was ever completed.
ᐧ

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: project athena (was Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS)
  2023-02-10 15:44                     ` Clem Cole
@ 2023-02-10 17:19                       ` Dan Cross
  2023-02-10 18:33                         ` Lars Brinkhoff
  2023-02-10 18:44                         ` Warner Losh
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Dan Cross @ 2023-02-10 17:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Clem Cole; +Cc: Jonathan Gray, Computer Old Farts Followers

On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 10:44 AM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 10:34 AM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If I recall correctly (and it's been a while...) csup, CVSup, et al
>> were based on `sup`, which was a file distribution tool somewhat like
>> `rdist`, which came from CMU. csup/cvsup was optimized for moving
>> source code deltas (a la CVS repositories) around. I recall a
>> graphical client written in Modula-3?
>
> Right -- ??maybe?? Bob Baron or one of the Mach guys did it  - used the DEC Modula-3 IIRC.

That sounds right for `sup`. I vaguely remember it being associated
with Coda, as well? I believe the BSDs used it to distribute source
code (in addition to or instead of anoncvs?) in the 90s.

It looks like CVSup was done by John Polstra in Modula-3. It was being
used for FreeBSD in at least 1996, but I don't know when they started
using it. It's mostly disappeared, but archive.org has a snapshot of
its old web site:
https://web.archive.org/web/20060103034312/http://www.cvsup.org/faq.html

`csup` was a reimplementation in C (without the GUI part, I imagine)
because the Modula-3 dependency was a pain.

>> The SUPDUP protocol used by ITS hosts was a "Display Protocol" based
>> on TELNET: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc734
>
> Exactly - popular with the LISP hackers.  I started to implement it in the CMU Distributed Front-End years ago but never finished it - I don't know if it was ever completed.

Oh yeah, I imagine it was implemented on Lisp machines, probably for
connecting to ITS. Lars, do you know?

        - Dan C.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: project athena (was Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS)
  2023-02-10 15:33                   ` Dan Cross
  2023-02-10 15:44                     ` Clem Cole
@ 2023-02-10 18:21                     ` Lars Brinkhoff
  2023-02-10 20:21                       ` Lars Brinkhoff
  2023-02-10 18:34                     ` Warner Losh
  2 siblings, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Brinkhoff @ 2023-02-10 18:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Cross; +Cc: Jonathan Gray, Computer Old Farts Followers

Dan Cross wrote:
> Warner Losh wrote:
>>> Jonathan Gray wrote:
>>> >> Any chance this DOS supdup software is still around?
>>> > http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/MIT/pc-ip/
>> I wonder if this was the same supdup that the early BSDs used to
>> distribute their source in the 90s ..

If there was any RFC734 supdup in BSD, then I'm guessing that would have
been a different one written by David Bridgham.  The PC/IP one seems to
be targeted specifically at MS-DOS, although cross compiled from BSD.
Maybe Bridgham was involved in that one too, though.  I have asked, and
will report back.

> I believe they are entirely different.  If I recall correctly (and
> it's been a while...) csup, CVSup, et al were based on `sup`

If Warner was referring to those, then you would be right.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: project athena (was Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS)
  2023-02-10 17:19                       ` Dan Cross
@ 2023-02-10 18:33                         ` Lars Brinkhoff
  2023-02-10 18:43                           ` Lars Brinkhoff
  2023-02-10 18:44                         ` Warner Losh
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Brinkhoff @ 2023-02-10 18:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Cross; +Cc: Jonathan Gray, Computer Old Farts Followers

Dan Cross wrote:
> Oh yeah, I imagine [SUPDUP] was implemented on Lisp machines, probably
> for connecting to ITS. Lars, do you know?

I don't know if it was first implemented on ITS or Lisp machines, but
one of those two.  SUPDUP is basically just ITS' internal terminal
buffer codes for text and cursor movement, adopted as a network
protocol.  So certainly the first SUPDUP server would have been written
for ITS.  Stanford's AI lab also adopted the protocol.  But outside
those two sites, almost no one.

The name comes from "super-duper image mode", shortened to fit ITS' file
name limit of six characters.  On ITS, a terminal may be opened in
"ASCII mode" which means control chacters are interpreted.  In "image
mode" most control characters are passed through verbatim.  There's a
special "super-image mode" where *all* characters are passed through.
So "super-duper image mode", then, alludes to the fact that even the
normally invisible internal codes are passed through.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: project athena (was Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS)
  2023-02-10 15:33                   ` Dan Cross
  2023-02-10 15:44                     ` Clem Cole
  2023-02-10 18:21                     ` Lars Brinkhoff
@ 2023-02-10 18:34                     ` Warner Losh
  2 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2023-02-10 18:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Cross; +Cc: Jonathan Gray, Computer Old Farts Followers

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On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 8:33 AM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 10:26 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 3:12 AM Lars Brinkhoff <lars@nocrew.org> wrote:
> >> Jonathan Gray wrote:
> >> >> Any chance this DOS supdup software is still around?
> >> >
> >> > https://web.mit.edu/Saltzer/www/publications/pcip-1985.pdf
> >> > http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/MIT/pc-ip/
> >>
> >> Great, thanks!
> >>
> >> It's a bit sad to read in supdup.mss "Unfortunately, very few machines
> >> have TCP/Supdup servers.  The only servers known to us are on Mit-MC and
> >> Su-AI, and 4.2 Unix machines running a server we distribute."  At this
> >> point, three old ITS machines had recently fallen over, one after the
> >> other, and MC was the only one left standing.  But not long after, four
> >> new ones would appear.  One of which is still up and running!
> >
> > I wonder if this was the same supdup that the early BSDs used to
> distribute their source in the 90s ..
>
> I believe they are entirely different.
>
> If I recall correctly (and it's been a while...) csup, CVSup, et al
> were based on `sup`, which was a file distribution tool somewhat like
> `rdist`, which came from CMU. csup/cvsup was optimized for moving
> source code deltas (a la CVS repositories) around. I recall a
> graphical client written in Modula-3?
>

cvsup was written by John Polstra in Modula-3. IT had an optional GUI
client.
It was notable at the time for using the radical new concept of threading to
stream the exchange elements of the protocol, speeding it up radically over
the old sup protocol, which was entirely synchronous. In addition, it knew
about the structure of RCS files, and exchanged only delta information so
could make a number of interesting optimizations in transmission of data
and delta data (since RCS had rules for the version number's forms, etc). It
was from the very early days of the FreeBSD project (somewhere between
FreeBSD 2.0 and 2.1) because the sup protocol was killing the wallnut creek
CD-ROM servers with its load (a primary motivation for teaching it about the
structure of RCS files).

csup was a later rewrite in 'c' as the module-3 compiler fell into
disrepair. It
was written by Maxime Henrion and is protocol compatible with the cvsup
programs. It lacked a gui, but was way more portable and didn't require that
a new architecture in FreeBSD first port the Module-3 compiler to it so
source
updates were possible (only slight exaggeration). cvsup was ported between
three or four different Modula-3 compilers as support for the language was
fading away....

Both became obsolete when the FreeBSD project moved to svn. It offered
not-quite-as-good, but good-enough delta updates, so cvsup and csup
became relegated to the dustbin of history.


> The SUPDUP protocol used by ITS hosts was a "Display Protocol" based
> on TELNET: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc734
>
> I think the similarity in naming was just a coincidence.
>

Now that you say that, I recall that as well...

Warner

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: project athena (was Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS)
  2023-02-10 18:33                         ` Lars Brinkhoff
@ 2023-02-10 18:43                           ` Lars Brinkhoff
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Brinkhoff @ 2023-02-10 18:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Cross; +Cc: Jonathan Gray, Computer Old Farts Followers

> Dan Cross wrote:
>> Oh yeah, I imagine [SUPDUP] was implemented on Lisp machines, probably
>> for connecting to ITS. Lars, do you know?
>
> I don't know if it was first implemented on ITS or Lisp machines, but
> one of those two.

I think this quote from the ITS program settles it.  At this point the
CONS prototype Lispm was only just up and running.  DAM is David Moon.

        TITLE SUPER DUPER IMAGE TELNET

; This program allows one to log in to one ITS from another.
; The full characteristics of the terminal are preserved.
; DAM, May 1975

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: project athena (was Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS)
  2023-02-10 17:19                       ` Dan Cross
  2023-02-10 18:33                         ` Lars Brinkhoff
@ 2023-02-10 18:44                         ` Warner Losh
  2023-02-10 18:53                           ` Warner Losh
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 13+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2023-02-10 18:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Cross; +Cc: Jonathan Gray, Computer Old Farts Followers

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On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 10:20 AM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 10:44 AM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 10:34 AM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> If I recall correctly (and it's been a while...) csup, CVSup, et al
> >> were based on `sup`, which was a file distribution tool somewhat like
> >> `rdist`, which came from CMU. csup/cvsup was optimized for moving
> >> source code deltas (a la CVS repositories) around. I recall a
> >> graphical client written in Modula-3?
> >
> > Right -- ??maybe?? Bob Baron or one of the Mach guys did it  - used the
> DEC Modula-3 IIRC.
>
> That sounds right for `sup`. I vaguely remember it being associated
> with Coda, as well? I believe the BSDs used it to distribute source
> code (in addition to or instead of anoncvs?) in the 90s.
>

The original sup was on the 4.4BSD tapes, and was written in C' It may
have come from Mach.


> It looks like CVSup was done by John Polstra in Modula-3. It was being
> used for FreeBSD in at least 1996, but I don't know when they started
> using it. It's mostly disappeared, but archive.org has a snapshot of
> its old web site:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20060103034312/http://www.cvsup.org/faq.html
>

Yes. FreeBSD didn't offer anoncvs because CVS was so terrible at handling
the
high rate of change for the FreeBSD project. I don't think any of the other
BSD projects ever used it officially, but I have a vague memory of there
being
unofficial NetBSD and OpenBSD mirrors. The latter two projects focused on
using anoncvs, to the present day (though both now have git and other
mirrors).
DragonFlyBSD used it briefly since it started with CVS and then
transitioned to
git, when it stopped using it entirely.


> `csup` was a reimplementation in C (without the GUI part, I imagine)
> because the Modula-3 dependency was a pain.
>

Yes. The compilers were slow to update, the old ones stopped working
due to the compilers heavy knowledge of threads, which were undergoing
flux in the base FreeBSD system, so updates were always tricky. Plus
there were issues with different upstreams accepting FreeBSD patches
for various reasons that I have only a vague recollection of. There were two
or three compilers, IIRC: The original DEC one, then an egcs based one
and then a gcc one when egcs and gcc "reunited"... This was an unbelievable
pain, with few people knowing how to properly do a bringup and John retiring
or becoming semi-retired in this time period.

Warner


> >> The SUPDUP protocol used by ITS hosts was a "Display Protocol" based
> >> on TELNET: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc734
> >
> > Exactly - popular with the LISP hackers.  I started to implement it in
> the CMU Distributed Front-End years ago but never finished it - I don't
> know if it was ever completed.
>
> Oh yeah, I imagine it was implemented on Lisp machines, probably for
> connecting to ITS. Lars, do you know?
>
>         - Dan C.
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: project athena (was Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS)
  2023-02-10 18:44                         ` Warner Losh
@ 2023-02-10 18:53                           ` Warner Losh
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Warner Losh @ 2023-02-10 18:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Cross; +Cc: Jonathan Gray, Computer Old Farts Followers

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4102 bytes --]

[[ sorry for replying to myself ]]

One or two tweaks...

On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 11:44 AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 10:20 AM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 10:44 AM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
>> > On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 10:34 AM Dan Cross <crossd@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> If I recall correctly (and it's been a while...) csup, CVSup, et al
>> >> were based on `sup`, which was a file distribution tool somewhat like
>> >> `rdist`, which came from CMU. csup/cvsup was optimized for moving
>> >> source code deltas (a la CVS repositories) around. I recall a
>> >> graphical client written in Modula-3?
>> >
>> > Right -- ??maybe?? Bob Baron or one of the Mach guys did it  - used the
>> DEC Modula-3 IIRC.
>>
>> That sounds right for `sup`. I vaguely remember it being associated
>> with Coda, as well? I believe the BSDs used it to distribute source
>> code (in addition to or instead of anoncvs?) in the 90s.
>>
>
> The original sup was on the 4.4BSD tapes, and was written in C' It may
> have come from Mach.
>
>
>> It looks like CVSup was done by John Polstra in Modula-3. It was being
>> used for FreeBSD in at least 1996, but I don't know when they started
>> using it. It's mostly disappeared, but archive.org has a snapshot of
>> its old web site:
>> https://web.archive.org/web/20060103034312/http://www.cvsup.org/faq.html
>>
>
> Yes. FreeBSD didn't offer anoncvs because CVS was so terrible at handling
> the
> high rate of change for the FreeBSD project. I don't think any of the other
> BSD projects ever used it officially, but I have a vague memory of there
> being
> unofficial NetBSD and OpenBSD mirrors. The latter two projects focused on
> using anoncvs, to the present day (though both now have git and other
> mirrors).
> DragonFlyBSD used it briefly since it started with CVS and then
> transitioned to
> git, when it stopped using it entirely.
>

anoncvs didn't cache the state, but cvsupd did, so with the high number of
clients
FreeBSD had, cvsupd could handle the load, while anoncvs made the machine
fall
over a lot due to all the file I/O and some, long since fixed, bugs in the
new-at-the-time
unified buffer cache code. The data for cvsupd's working set could fit into
memory,
but cvs's scanning of the whole tree blew any caching in the kernel out of
the water
in addition to hitting the above bugs....


> `csup` was a reimplementation in C (without the GUI part, I imagine)
>> because the Modula-3 dependency was a pain.
>>
>
> Yes. The compilers were slow to update, the old ones stopped working
> due to the compilers heavy knowledge of threads, which were undergoing
> flux in the base FreeBSD system, so updates were always tricky. Plus
> there were issues with different upstreams accepting FreeBSD patches
> for various reasons that I have only a vague recollection of. There were
> two
> or three compilers, IIRC: The original DEC one, then an egcs based one
> and then a gcc one when egcs and gcc "reunited"... This was an unbelievable
> pain, with few people knowing how to properly do a bringup and John
> retiring
> or becoming semi-retired in this time period.
>

cvsup was there for FreeBSD/alpha, but never made the transition to powerpc,
sparc64 or mips because the modula-3 compiler support for those platforms
at the time was terrible to non-existent... And IIRC the transition from
the DEC
compiler to egcs was motivated by trying to fix this problem, but I don't
think it
ever really worked out that way... I also think amd64 was an issue too, but
my recollections on that are fuzzy.

Warner


> Warner
>
>
>> >> The SUPDUP protocol used by ITS hosts was a "Display Protocol" based
>> >> on TELNET: https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc734
>> >
>> > Exactly - popular with the LISP hackers.  I started to implement it in
>> the CMU Distributed Front-End years ago but never finished it - I don't
>> know if it was ever completed.
>>
>> Oh yeah, I imagine it was implemented on Lisp machines, probably for
>> connecting to ITS. Lars, do you know?
>>
>>         - Dan C.
>>
>

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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

* [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: project athena (was Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS)
  2023-02-10 18:21                     ` Lars Brinkhoff
@ 2023-02-10 20:21                       ` Lars Brinkhoff
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 13+ messages in thread
From: Lars Brinkhoff @ 2023-02-10 20:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Dan Cross; +Cc: Jonathan Gray, Computer Old Farts Followers

> If there was any RFC734 supdup in BSD, then I'm guessing that would have
> been a different one written by David Bridgham.  The PC/IP one seems to
> be targeted specifically at MS-DOS, although cross compiled from BSD.
> Maybe Bridgham was involved in that one too, though.  I have asked, and
> will report back.

Bridgham answered:
"I wrote both of those clients as well as the BSD server.  That's long
enough ago that I don't recall if I shared any code between them.  I
don't think did, other than the fact that I wrote both so they probably
share similarities just because of that."

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 13+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2023-02-10 20:21 UTC | newest]

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2023-02-10  6:19           ` [COFF] Re: [TUHS] Re: project athena (was Re: Setting up an X Development Environment for Mac OS) Lars Brinkhoff
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2023-02-10 10:12               ` Lars Brinkhoff
2023-02-10 15:25                 ` Warner Losh
2023-02-10 15:33                   ` Dan Cross
2023-02-10 15:44                     ` Clem Cole
2023-02-10 17:19                       ` Dan Cross
2023-02-10 18:33                         ` Lars Brinkhoff
2023-02-10 18:43                           ` Lars Brinkhoff
2023-02-10 18:44                         ` Warner Losh
2023-02-10 18:53                           ` Warner Losh
2023-02-10 18:21                     ` Lars Brinkhoff
2023-02-10 20:21                       ` Lars Brinkhoff
2023-02-10 18:34                     ` Warner Losh

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