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From: crossd at gmail.com (Dan Cross)
Subject: [COFF] [TUHS] v7 K&R C
Date: Mon, 18 May 2020 12:11:00 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAEoi9W6jwA1_MGD11Sc837YMgDfGJWzAQFCyrbrx72a1PJ3ViA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CABH=_VSqRFD6aHiRRdpQc7fzLaAcBXR-OMRJW3LqnqAih-W8EQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 12:24 PM Paul Winalski <paul.winalski at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 5/16/20, Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen at sdaoden.eu> wrote:
> >
> > Why was there no byte or "mem" type?
>
> These days machine architecture has settled on the 8-bit byte as the
> unit for addressing, but it wasn't always the case.  The PDP-10
> addressed memory in 36-bit units.  The character manipulating
> instructions could deal with a variety of different byte lengths:  you
> could store six 6-bit BCD characters per machine word,


Was this perhaps a typo for 9 4-bit BCD digits? I have heard that a reason
for the 36-bit word size of computers of that era was that the main
competition at the time was against mechanical calculator, which had
9-digit precision. 9*4=36, so 9 BCD digits could fit into a single word,
for parity with the competition.

6x6-bit data would certainly hold BAUDOT data, and I thought the Univac/CDC
machines supported a 6-bit character set?  Does this live on in the Unisys
1100-series machines? I see some reference to FIELDATA online.

I feel like this might be drifting into COFF territory now; Cc'ing there.

or five ASCII
> 7-bit characters (with a bit left over), or four 8-bit characters
> (ASCII plus parity, with four bits left over), or four 9-bit
> characters.
>
> Regarding a "mem" type, take a look at BLISS.  The only data type that
> language has is the machine word.
>
> >   +getfield(buf)
> >   +char buf[];
> >   +{
> >   +       int j;
> >   +       char c;
> >   +
> >   +       j = 0;
> >   +       while((c = buf[j] = getc(iobuf)) >= 0)
> >   +       if(c==':' || c=='\n') {
> >   +               buf[j] =0;
> >   +               return(1);
> >   +       } else
> >   +               j++;
> >   +       return(0);
> >   +}
> >
> > so here the EOF was different and char was signed 7-bit it seems.
>
> That makes perfect sense if you're dealing with ASCII, which is a
> 7-bit character set.


To bring it back slightly to Unix, when Mary Ann and I were playing around
with First Edition on the emulated PDP-7 at LCM+L during the Unix50 event
last USENIX, I have a vague recollection that the B routine for reading a
character from stdin was either `getchar` or `getc`. I had some impression
that this did some magic necessary to extract a character from half of an
18-bit word (maybe it just zeroed the upper half of a word or something).
If I had to guess, I imagine that the coincidence between "character" and
"byte" in C is a quirk of this history, as opposed to any special hidden
meaning regarding textual vs binary data, particularly since Unix makes no
real distinction between the two: files are just unstructured bags of
bytes, they're called 'char' because that was just the way things had
always been.

        - Dan C.
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       reply	other threads:[~2020-05-18 16:11 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 6+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20200515213138.8E0F72D2D71E@macaroni.inf.ed.ac.uk>
     [not found] ` <alpine.DEB.2.21.2005151752250.19733@sd-119843.dedibox.fr>
     [not found]   ` <077a01d62b08$e696bee0$b3c43ca0$@ronnatalie.com>
     [not found]     ` <20200515233427.31Vab%steffen@sdaoden.eu>
     [not found]       ` <5DB09C5A-F5DA-4375-AAA5-0711FC6FB1D9@ronnatalie.com>
     [not found]         ` <20200516232607.nLiIx%steffen@sdaoden.eu>
     [not found]           ` <CABH=_VSqRFD6aHiRRdpQc7fzLaAcBXR-OMRJW3LqnqAih-W8EQ@mail.gmail.com>
2020-05-18 16:11             ` crossd [this message]
2020-05-18 16:30               ` clemc
2020-05-18 21:18               ` ron
2020-05-19  4:00               ` [COFF] UNIVAC and other character sets (was: v7 K&R C) grog
     [not found] <CAKzdPgyYUCPDn3KjRgx6Aw_=AD8O2Mdk0WkmPZCH9oN+XkPebg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found] ` <20200511005745.GL17035@mcvoy.com>
     [not found]   ` <m1jYCHm-0036tPC@more.local>
     [not found]     ` <CABH=_VRucqOpJvZVRqhz6Bv-kVe6P-7Hk3SFDuO0XyKZ_=oCBg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]       ` <CAC20D2NTRE4cK5jewe-Yuo1UVnH6pY2u-wSt8NiG-5hBkzvvzQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]         ` <CABH=_VT9dU7kuJSa+iN6zdF7RMpS-hE92DsyeSuMkTmrYGL_9g@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]           ` <357EFE54-BD94-4C10-8C43-C6735BF7D317@via.net>
     [not found]             ` <20200511202555.GU17035@mcvoy.com>
     [not found]               ` <CABH=_VS8XO8BQA=fMCGTf8u-ubXLKT1tzUJ5ntTXWkjeGk1sSA@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                 ` <alpine.BSF.2.21.9999.2005140930270.18677@aneurin.horsfall.org>
     [not found]                   ` <20200514173206.GJ20771@mcvoy.com>
2020-05-14 17:37                     ` [COFF] [TUHS] v7 K&R C athornton
2020-05-14 17:38                       ` lm

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