[COFF] VAX/VMS 4.4 Source Listing?

[COFF] VAX/VMS 4.4 Source Listing?

[segaloco via COFF]

Good morning all, I was wondering if anyone in this group was aware of any known preservation of VAX/VMS 4.4 source code?

Just saw this on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/195582389147?hash=item2d899e6b9b:g:neYAAOSwmQJj3EkH

I certainly don't have the equipment for this in my arsenal, but at the same time, if this represents long-lost source code, I'd happy try and nab it and then get it to someone who can do the restoration work from this.

Thoughts?

- Matt G.

[COFF] Re: VAX/VMS 4.4 Source Listing?

[Clem Cole]

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Matt,
    I sent a former co-worker the VMS developer lead an email this AM.  I
was pretty sure I knew the answer to my question when I asked if this had
any value.   His reply was:

*Not sure about this particular version, but there certainly are other
copies floating around.*

*One thing to be aware of is that to my knowledge**, DEC never released a
complete source kit outside of the company at any price *(...  we certainly
had that behavior in Ultrix/Tru64-land I know for sure...)*.  The kits
redacted "sensitive" information, including some of the authentication
methods and the license enforcement (er, compliance assistance) code.  What
was sold as a "source kit" (media, under license) was, nonetheless
considered a trade secret with all the markings. *

*I had a complete copy of the master source pack in Marlborough during the
Aquarius development/debug time; I know I put backup tape of that into the
CHM.  That has the CMS library which would go back to at least V1.  (That
would be c.a. 1987-9.)  But the master pack contains only the VMS OS & some
tightly coupled products (e.g. rms).  The languages were elsewhere, as was
the workstation software.*


Clem
ᐧ

On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 12:38 PM segaloco via COFF <coff@tuhs.org> wrote:

> Good morning all, I was wondering if anyone in this group was aware of any
> known preservation of VAX/VMS 4.4 source code?
>
> Just saw this on eBay:
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/195582389147?hash=item2d899e6b9b:g:neYAAOSwmQJj3EkH
>
> I certainly don't have the equipment for this in my arsenal, but at the
> same time, if this represents long-lost source code, I'd happy try and nab
> it and then get it to someone who can do the restoration work from this.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> - Matt G.
>

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[COFF] Re: VAX/VMS 4.4 Source Listing?

[Warner Losh]

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On Mon, Feb 6, 2023, 1:25 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:

> Matt,
>     I sent a former co-worker the VMS developer lead an email this AM.  I
> was pretty sure I knew the answer to my question when I asked if this had
> any value.   His reply was:
>
> *Not sure about this particular version, but there certainly are other
> copies floating around.*
>
> *One thing to be aware of is that to my knowledge**, DEC never released a
> complete source kit outside of the company at any price *(...  we
> certainly had that behavior in Ultrix/Tru64-land I know for sure...)*.
> The kits redacted "sensitive" information, including some of the
> authentication methods and the license enforcement (er, compliance
> assistance) code.  What was sold as a "source kit" (media, under license)
> was, nonetheless considered a trade secret with all the markings. *
>
> *I had a complete copy of the master source pack in Marlborough during the
> Aquarius development/debug time; I know I put backup tape of that into the
> CHM.  That has the CMS library which would go back to at least V1.  (That
> would be c.a. 1987-9.)  But the master*
>
> V1 is 77-79... or is the CMS from that time?

Warner


* pack contains only the VMS OS & some tightly coupled products (e.g.
> rms).  The languages were elsewhere, as was the workstation software.*
>
>
> Clem
> ᐧ
>
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2023 at 12:38 PM segaloco via COFF <coff@tuhs.org> wrote:
>
>> Good morning all, I was wondering if anyone in this group was aware of
>> any known preservation of VAX/VMS 4.4 source code?
>>
>> Just saw this on eBay:
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/195582389147?hash=item2d899e6b9b:g:neYAAOSwmQJj3EkH
>>
>> I certainly don't have the equipment for this in my arsenal, but at the
>> same time, if this represents long-lost source code, I'd happy try and nab
>> it and then get it to someone who can do the restoration work from this.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> - Matt G.
>>
>

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[COFF] Re: VAX/VMS 4.4 Source Listing?

[Paul Winalski]

On 2/6/23, Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 6, 2023, 1:25 PM Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com> wrote:
[quoting a VMS developer friend of his]
>>
>> *I had a complete copy of the master source pack in Marlborough during
>> the
>> Aquarius development/debug time; I know I put backup tape of that into
>> the
>> CHM.  That has the CMS library which would go back to at least V1.  (That
>> would be c.a. 1987-9.)  But the master*
>>
>> V1 is 77-79... or is the CMS from that time?

I worked at one of the VAX-11/780 hardware beta test sites back in
1977-79.  The machine ran VAX/VMS verison X0.5 at first, later
upgraded to V1.0.

I joined DEC in 1980 in the Methods & Tools software engineering
group.  At that time they were working on a tool called the System for
Tracking the Evolution of Programs (STEP).  This was a version control
system using ideas from Unix's SCCS.  The name STEP had trademark
issues and so it was rechristened Code Management System (CMS).  I
think it was first released by DEC as a product in 1982.

STEP would have been in early stages of development during the time
that VMS 1.0 was being developed.  The VMS group at that time used a
tool called SLP as the core of their configuration management system.
SLP could compare two versions of a text file and create a patch file
(these were called "slipper packets") to convert one into the other.
Configuration management consisted of keeping collections of slipper
packets.

The VMS development group converted to CMS ca. 82/83.  I don't know
which version of VMS was the base version for their CMS library.  They
probably started with the archived V1.0 release sources.  But their
CMS library would not have recorded the development history of V1.0.

-Paul W.