From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.1 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 20514 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2023 21:12:56 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 21 Jan 2023 21:12:56 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2856D4256A; Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:12:24 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuhs.org; s=dkim; t=1674335544; h=from:from:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-owner:list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post; bh=itGTnrVkKFd0TKlXosKfqeCqYIXw/+AqcRIOP7FBggM=; b=D0tTrd6HE2vYecQ6Bajxk0ULGEd8qHsCc6weYZXV3IFG8ROavq4eH4oBANIA/lPVAGg6gf mM4PvDxnlHMgvKuUfnJy7hNM9bnt4BEyFkc667QZxSwIy+oRNzRcrzand8W3MYVrm4tpF2 rJZ7qq8QDbYxXspgvYsTcbYNcPbWNdc= Received: from mail-40141.protonmail.ch (mail-40141.protonmail.ch [185.70.40.141]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2BA7342569 for ; Sun, 22 Jan 2023 07:12:17 +1000 (AEST) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2023 21:12:03 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1674335534; x=1674594734; bh=itGTnrVkKFd0TKlXosKfqeCqYIXw/+AqcRIOP7FBggM=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=MYNSnQn0S2ySNeFAQ9sYy6H/0vJDA0KxDB6xvld6JNJHHB+f8pnNqydOkHlg5SsER Vb/VkA9U1FgyYx5oooJwSN3FpE86ViTwNjDvZEKifq1w9NMvBBUROQV9gcjsXhlzY2 yYmh4wplNni/6GCXULX0QiC6ibF2gtQtNNigTUwFUmHBAgjW1PI0gp47B0uLRWQl7Q e4z9cxqIElyaavzHtZsEwcX96uYc7RU5sKsvbwpqEC9DAqE6CTC4pzIsaKi0h/hhDF 4zSUZ76inK78jZeeAhXY7HRqFMKrLSaTdedOhsKXIR9vWqiCnORNEoqo2EtKoVwjCO n7dUxWBGRnSDQ== To: Luther Johnson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <396750c7-6fc8-9b15-5e68-9f569718ba2e@makerlisp.com> References: <202301180943.30I9hrOw030485@freefriends.org> <7cc2b7c5-5e98-9299-4fa8-a477fbf4ff77@makerlisp.com> <75cfc721-a662-ddea-1188-767462d747ae@makerlisp.com> <202301211812.30LICtSl021234@freefriends.org> <396750c7-6fc8-9b15-5e68-9f569718ba2e@makerlisp.com> Feedback-ID: 35591162:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID-Hash: UH35PVHY7RVOUNLWCYRW4KJUTLZIBL4U X-Message-ID-Hash: UH35PVHY7RVOUNLWCYRW4KJUTLZIBL4U X-MailFrom: segaloco@protonmail.com X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: arnold@skeeve.com, cowan@ccil.org, COFF X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [COFF] Re: The era of general purpose computing (Re: AIX moved into maintainance mode List-Id: Computer Old Farts Forum Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: From: segaloco via COFF Reply-To: segaloco COFF'd I wonder if we'll see events around 2038 that renew interest in conventiona= l computing. There are going to be more public eyes on vintage computers a= nd aging computational infrastructure the closer we get to that date methin= ks, if even just in the form of Ric Romero-esque curiosity pieces. Hopefully the cohort of folks that dive into Fortran and Cobol for the firs= t time to pick up some of the slack on bringing 2038-averse software and sy= stems forward will continue to explore around the margins of their newfound= skills. I know starting in assembly and C influenced me to then come to u= nderstand the bigger picture in which those languages and their paradigms d= eveloped, so hopefully the same is true of a general programming community = finding itself Fortran-and-Cobol-ish for a time. - Matt G. ------- Original Message ------- On Saturday, January 21st, 2023 at 10:43 AM, Luther Johnson wrote: > Yes, I know, but some of that SW development is being automated ... I'm > not saying it will totally go away, but the numbers will become smaller, > and the number of people who know how to do it will become smaller, and > the quality will continue to deteriorate. The number of people who can > detect quality problems before the failures they cause, will also get > smaller. Not extinct, but endangered, and we are all endangered by the > quality problems. >=20 > On 01/21/2023 11:12 AM, arnold@skeeve.com wrote: >=20 > > Real computers with keyboards etc won't go away; think about > > all those servers running the backends of the apps and the > > databases for the cool stuff on the phones. Someone is still > > going to have to write those bits. > >=20 > > Arnold > >=20 > > Luther Johnson luther@makerlisp.com wrote: > >=20 > > > Well, that's a comforting thought, I hope it goes that way. > > >=20 > > > On 01/19/2023 06:10 PM, John Cowan wrote: > > >=20 > > > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 5:23 PM Luther Johnson > > > mailto:luther@makerlisp.com> wrote: > > > >=20 > > > > Computers that are not smart phone-like are definitely on the > > > > endangered > > > > species list. You know, the kind on a desk, with a keyboard ... > > > >=20 > > > > I don't have statistics for this, but I doubt it. Consider amateur > > > > radio, which has been around for a century now. Amateur stations ar= e > > > > an ever-shrinking fraction of all transmitters, to say nothing of > > > > receivers, but in absolute terms there are now more than 2 million > > > > hams in the world, which is almost certainly more than ever.