From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILING_LIST_MULTI autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: (qmail 6668 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2023 13:44:08 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (50.116.15.146) by inbox.vuxu.org with ESMTPUTF8; 1 Feb 2023 13:44:08 -0000 Received: from minnie.tuhs.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C36C42499; Wed, 1 Feb 2023 23:43:36 +1000 (AEST) Received: from anduin.eldar.org (anduin.eldar.org [24.106.248.90]) by minnie.tuhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61BE642496 for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2023 23:43:29 +1000 (AEST) Received: from anduin.eldar.org (IDENT:brad@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by anduin.eldar.org (8.16.1/8.13.8) with ESMTPS id 311Dg0bJ010659 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 1 Feb 2023 08:42:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from brad@localhost) by anduin.eldar.org (8.16.1/8.13.8/Submit) id 311Dfxd0020722; Wed, 1 Feb 2023 08:41:59 -0500 (EST) From: Brad Spencer To: segaloco In-Reply-To: (message from segaloco via COFF on Wed, 01 Feb 2023 01:50:05 +0000) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2023 08:41:59 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.4 (anduin.eldar.org [0.0.0.0]); Wed, 01 Feb 2023 08:42:00 -0500 (EST) Message-ID-Hash: QOX4QLWSNJQXWBSPWP37DZT5GVATGWMH X-Message-ID-Hash: QOX4QLWSNJQXWBSPWP37DZT5GVATGWMH X-MailFrom: brad@anduin.eldar.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: coff@tuhs.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.6b1 Precedence: list Subject: [COFF] Re: [COFF from TUHS] Re: yet another C discussion (YACD) and: Rust is not C++ List-Id: Computer Old Farts Forum Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: segaloco via COFF writes: > COFF'd > [snip] > Long story short, most people don't know how their programs work because they aren't really "their" programs so much as their assembly of a number of off-the-shelf or slightly tweaked components following the norms of whatever school of thought they may originate in (marketing, finance, graphic design, etc.). Sadly, this decoupling likely isn't going away, and we're only bound to see the percentage of "bad" software increase over time. That's the sort of change that over time leads to people then changing their opinions of what "bad software" is. Look at how many people gleefully accept the landscape of smart-device "apps".... > > - Matt G. At my last $DAYJOB the developers were more or less not allowed to alter components that were acquired external to the company. That is to say, no "slightly tweaked" was permitted. If it was in house developed, that was another matter. This led to more then one occasion where a problem that could have been solved with a software fix to the product stack had to be dealt with in infrastructure because they would not fork something they acquired from github. Or they ended up utilizing the infrastructure in a very inefficient manor because they would not alter something or other and then blamed infrastructure for having bad behavior. I am pretty sure that the general understanding of what was being developed was low with most of that group. The development group was intentionally not writing software for the long haul. If something didn't work it was refactored, if possible and if the "it" was important enough, or infrastructure was blamed and made to work around the problem or they just forced the user community to deal with the problems (especially if the user community was in house coworkers). The life cycle of much of the code was less than 3 years and in a lot of cases was reimplemented every year (there were some exceptions, of course...). It may have been "bad software" but as long as it worked for its purpose right now, that really didn't matter. -- Brad Spencer - brad@anduin.eldar.org - KC8VKS - http://anduin.eldar.org