* ms outlook replyers @ 2000-12-12 21:09 Nick Papadonis 2000-12-12 22:12 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-13 2:11 ` Colin Walters 0 siblings, 2 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Nick Papadonis @ 2000-12-12 21:09 UTC (permalink / raw) Anyone have trouble with people using MS Outlook replying to your emails? For some reason (even though I have user-mail-address, user-host-address set) when they reply, it uses my local machines hostname and username. This is incorrect. Anyway to fix this, or am I doing something wrong? -- - Nick ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-12 21:09 ms outlook replyers Nick Papadonis @ 2000-12-12 22:12 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-12 22:25 ` Stainless Steel Rat ` (3 more replies) 2000-12-13 2:11 ` Colin Walters 1 sibling, 4 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2000-12-12 22:12 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding On 12 Dec 2000, Nick Papadonis wrote: > For some reason (even though I have user-mail-address, > user-host-address set) when they reply, it uses my local machines > hostname and username. This is incorrect. Maybe Outlook uses the Sender header? Or the From_ line? If it's the Sender header, you could try this: (add-to-list 'message-syntax-checks '(sender . disabled)) kai -- The arms should be held in a natural and unaffected way and never be conspicuous. -- Revised Technique of Latin American Dancing ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-12 22:12 ` Kai Großjohann @ 2000-12-12 22:25 ` Stainless Steel Rat 2000-12-13 6:41 ` Justin Sheehy ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Stainless Steel Rat @ 2000-12-12 22:25 UTC (permalink / raw) * Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) on Tue, 12 Dec 2000 | Maybe Outlook uses the Sender header? Or the From_ line? Lookout! incorrectly uses the Sender header, that I can confirm. Dunnow about SMTP envelope stuff. -- Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete. Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-12 22:12 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-12 22:25 ` Stainless Steel Rat @ 2000-12-13 6:41 ` Justin Sheehy 2000-12-13 8:36 ` Disable generation of "Sender: " by default Per Abrahamsen 2000-12-14 8:05 ` ms outlook replyers Dirk Gomez 3 siblings, 0 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Justin Sheehy @ 2000-12-13 6:41 UTC (permalink / raw) Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes: > Maybe Outlook uses the Sender header? Yes, Outlook is broken in this regard. Some current versions of Outlook will reply to the Sender header if it is present, ignoring the From header. No one can claim that this is correct, but one isn't likely to get Microsoft to change it very quickly in any case. -Justin ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Disable generation of "Sender: " by default. 2000-12-12 22:12 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-12 22:25 ` Stainless Steel Rat 2000-12-13 6:41 ` Justin Sheehy @ 2000-12-13 8:36 ` Per Abrahamsen 2000-12-13 14:05 ` Jesper Harder 2000-12-14 8:05 ` ms outlook replyers Dirk Gomez 3 siblings, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Per Abrahamsen @ 2000-12-13 8:36 UTC (permalink / raw) Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes: > (add-to-list 'message-syntax-checks '(sender . disabled)) I think this should be default. Anyone agree? Let sendmail (or whatever agent the message is delivered to) create the "Sender: " header, it can probably do a better (and more reliable) job than Gnus. The header is not mandatory anyway, according to RFC 822 it is "intended for use when the sender is not the author of the message, or to indicate who among a group of authors actually sent the message." For News it was for some time used for authentication, but other headers now do that job more reliably. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: Disable generation of "Sender: " by default. 2000-12-13 8:36 ` Disable generation of "Sender: " by default Per Abrahamsen @ 2000-12-13 14:05 ` Jesper Harder 2000-12-14 14:18 ` Per Abrahamsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Jesper Harder @ 2000-12-13 14:05 UTC (permalink / raw) Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes: > Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes: > > > (add-to-list 'message-syntax-checks '(sender . disabled)) > > I think this should be default. Anyone agree? It will break cancels and supersedes. If you use gnus-posting-styles the From-header doesn't match (message-make-from) and message-cancel-news checks the Sender-header instead. If there is no Sender-header you won't be allowed to cancel your own messages. -- Jesper Harder ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: Disable generation of "Sender: " by default. 2000-12-13 14:05 ` Jesper Harder @ 2000-12-14 14:18 ` Per Abrahamsen 2000-12-14 17:58 ` Jesper Harder 0 siblings, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Per Abrahamsen @ 2000-12-14 14:18 UTC (permalink / raw) Jesper Harder <harder@ifa.au.dk> writes: > If you use gnus-posting-styles the From-header doesn't match > (message-make-from) and message-cancel-news checks the Sender-header > instead. If there is no Sender-header you won't be allowed to cancel > your own messages. Will the cancel be obeyed by the news servers in that case? It seems like `gnus-posting-styles' isn't implemented fully. I'm certainly not impressed by its doc string. It can't be customized either. I'd suggest disabling the sender generation by default, and let someone who cares fix `gnus-posting-styles'. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: Disable generation of "Sender: " by default. 2000-12-14 14:18 ` Per Abrahamsen @ 2000-12-14 17:58 ` Jesper Harder 2000-12-15 12:35 ` Per Abrahamsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Jesper Harder @ 2000-12-14 17:58 UTC (permalink / raw) Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes: > Jesper Harder <harder@ifa.au.dk> writes: > > > If there is no Sender-header you won't be allowed to cancel your own > > messages. > > Will the cancel be obeyed by the news servers in that case? Yes, because Gnus uses the From-header of the original message in the cancel. > I'd suggest disabling the sender generation by default, and let > someone who cares fix `gnus-posting-styles'. Or maybe disable it only for mail, which won't break anything. -- Jesper Harder ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: Disable generation of "Sender: " by default. 2000-12-14 17:58 ` Jesper Harder @ 2000-12-15 12:35 ` Per Abrahamsen 2000-12-15 13:19 ` Harry Putnam 2000-12-15 14:27 ` Stainless Steel Rat 0 siblings, 2 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Per Abrahamsen @ 2000-12-15 12:35 UTC (permalink / raw) Jesper Harder <harder@ifa.au.dk> writes: > Or maybe disable it only for mail, which won't break anything. Yep. But as far as I can see, I don't get a "Sender: " in my mail, and I don't understand why. 'message-syntax-checks' is nil, and I'm posting from another machine than my mail address. So I do not dare touch the code. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: Disable generation of "Sender: " by default. 2000-12-15 12:35 ` Per Abrahamsen @ 2000-12-15 13:19 ` Harry Putnam 2000-12-15 15:47 ` Alan Shutko 2000-12-15 14:27 ` Stainless Steel Rat 1 sibling, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Harry Putnam @ 2000-12-15 13:19 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes: > Jesper Harder <harder@ifa.au.dk> writes: > > > Or maybe disable it only for mail, which won't break anything. > > Yep. But as far as I can see, I don't get a "Sender: " in my mail, > and I don't understand why. 'message-syntax-checks' is nil, and I'm > posting from another machine than my mail address. So I do not dare > touch the code. There have been long and bitter discussions about the `sender' line here and on gnu.emacs.gnus going back a year or two, back then it was generally presented as a `bad' thing to disable generation of sender. Respected posters advocated against hotly. But apparently things have changed in the way mail is processed since then and the sender line doesn't play the same role it once did. Not so long ago someone advocating: (setq message-syntax-checks '((sender . disabled))), openly would have been called to task... What has changed for this attitude to have relaxed or disappeared? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: Disable generation of "Sender: " by default. 2000-12-15 13:19 ` Harry Putnam @ 2000-12-15 15:47 ` Alan Shutko 0 siblings, 0 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Alan Shutko @ 2000-12-15 15:47 UTC (permalink / raw) Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes: > What has changed for this attitude to have relaxed or disappeared? Back then, the most that broke when you send out a sender address you didn't want was some mailing list software, and the usual response was "fix the ml software". Now there's a huge installed base of people using Outlook, and we know hoping for it to be fixed is well-nigh hopeless. (As shown by Gnus's tools to hide Outlook's nationalized "Re"s. Ever notice that you can put any two character code followed by a colon starting a subject and Outlook will strip it? Argh.) -- Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - In a variety of flavors! Your lucky number has been disconnected. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: Disable generation of "Sender: " by default. 2000-12-15 12:35 ` Per Abrahamsen 2000-12-15 13:19 ` Harry Putnam @ 2000-12-15 14:27 ` Stainless Steel Rat 2000-12-17 12:29 ` Kai Großjohann 1 sibling, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Stainless Steel Rat @ 2000-12-15 14:27 UTC (permalink / raw) * Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> on Fri, 15 Dec 2000 | Yep. But as far as I can see, I don't get a "Sender: " in my mail, | and I don't understand why. 'message-syntax-checks' is nil, and I'm | posting from another machine than my mail address. For mail, a Sender header is manually created by the agent that submits the message to the network when he is not the person who originated the message. Ie, if I write a message and you send it for me, my mailbox goes in the From header and your mailbox goes in the Sender header. Gnus does the right thing by not automatically generating a Sender header for mail. Lookout! does the wrong thing by using Sender for anything. News is different. For news, the Sender header is generated when your From address does not match your local posting address. RFC 1036 assumes that if you are posting from a particular host then you can receive mail at that host. The assumption is invalid, but it is in the standard. -- Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core, Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: Disable generation of "Sender: " by default. 2000-12-15 14:27 ` Stainless Steel Rat @ 2000-12-17 12:29 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-17 16:31 ` Stainless Steel Rat 0 siblings, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2000-12-17 12:29 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: (ding) On 15 Dec 2000, Stainless Steel Rat wrote: > News is different. For news, the Sender header is generated when > your From address does not match your local posting address. RFC > 1036 assumes that if you are posting from a particular host then you > can receive mail at that host. The assumption is invalid, but it is > in the standard. Hm. The only difference I can find between the description in RFC 822 and the one in 1036: * 1036 says that the Sender header should be verified by software at the submitting host. 822 says nothing about verification by software. * 1036 talks about the `entity' submitting the message into the network, 822 talks about the `agent (person, system or process)'. Gack. I still feel that the intent of the Sender header is the same in RFC 822 and 1036, but it's only a feeling. I don't know what Son-of-1036 says, and there is another document for this, I think, which I also don't know. I wish that Usenet was better standardized. As it is, we have to play by ear which is not good. kai -- A large number of young women don't trust men with beards. (BFBS Radio) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: Disable generation of "Sender: " by default. 2000-12-17 12:29 ` Kai Großjohann @ 2000-12-17 16:31 ` Stainless Steel Rat 2000-12-17 19:33 ` Kai Großjohann ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Stainless Steel Rat @ 2000-12-17 16:31 UTC (permalink / raw) * Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) on Sun, 17 Dec 2000 | Gack. I still feel that the intent of the Sender header is the same | in RFC 822 and 1036, but it's only a feeling. RFC 822: Sender is the agent responsibible for submitting a message to the network when he is someone other than the originator of the message. Ie, if you write a message and I send it, you are the originator (From) and I am the submitter (Sender). Sender is generated by hand -- never software -- when more than one agent is involved. It exists only to denote this fact. RFC 1036: Sender exists as a crude authentication mechanism. Sender is the authenticated (by software) local mailbox of the originator of the message when that mailbox differs from the one in the originator header. Ie, if I am on, say, skuld.gweep.net w/ login 'ratinox' and I post a news article with 'grumble@bogus.com' as my From header, then some program somewhere must generate 'Sender: ratinox@skuld.gweep.net'. They are not even vaguely close to each other. My opinion is that RFC 1036's Sender is badly broken, because it utterly fails to accomplish its goal. RFC 822's Sender does exactly what it is intended to do, no more, no less. -- Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ If Happy Fun Ball begins to smoke, get Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ away immediately. Seek shelter and cover PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ head. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: Disable generation of "Sender: " by default. 2000-12-17 16:31 ` Stainless Steel Rat @ 2000-12-17 19:33 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-17 22:57 ` Russ Allbery 2000-12-20 10:48 ` Toby Speight 2 siblings, 0 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2000-12-17 19:33 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: (ding) On 17 Dec 2000, Stainless Steel Rat wrote: > They are not even vaguely close to each other. My opinion is that > RFC 1036's Sender is badly broken, because it utterly fails to > accomplish its goal. RFC 822's Sender does exactly what it is > intended to do, no more, no less. But one of the examples given in RFC 1036 is exactly the same as the example given in RFC 822! /---- | For example, if John Smith is visiting CCA and wishes to post a | message to the network, using friend Sarah Jones' account, the | message might read: | | From: smith@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (John Smith) | Sender: jones@cca.COM (Sarah Jones) \---- This is just like the secretary example in RFC 822. Hence, there is at least some overlap between the intentions of the Sender header. (The RFC 1036 Sender header can be used in more situations, of course.) Hm. Oh, RFC 822 kinda assumes that the secretary was typing the message, too, whereas here, it's clear that Sarah is NOT typing the message. Hm. But that's not the big deal, is it? kai -- A large number of young women don't trust men with beards. (BFBS Radio) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: Disable generation of "Sender: " by default. 2000-12-17 16:31 ` Stainless Steel Rat 2000-12-17 19:33 ` Kai Großjohann @ 2000-12-17 22:57 ` Russ Allbery 2000-12-18 11:16 ` Per Abrahamsen 2000-12-20 10:48 ` Toby Speight 2 siblings, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Russ Allbery @ 2000-12-17 22:57 UTC (permalink / raw) Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> writes: > RFC 1036: Sender exists as a crude authentication mechanism. Sender is > the authenticated (by software) local mailbox of the originator of the > message when that mailbox differs from the one in the originator header. > Ie, if I am on, say, skuld.gweep.net w/ login 'ratinox' and I post a > news article with 'grumble@bogus.com' as my From header, then some > program somewhere must generate 'Sender: ratinox@skuld.gweep.net'. > They are not even vaguely close to each other. My opinion is that RFC > 1036's Sender is badly broken, because it utterly fails to accomplish > its goal. RFC 822's Sender does exactly what it is intended to do, no > more, no less. I'm fairly sure USEFOR drops the entire broken idea of a Sender header, thankfully. LISTSERV still responds to the Sender header rather than the From header, checks the Sender header to see if you can post to a list, and if you try to subscribe to a mailing list, subscribes the content of your Sender header instead of your From address. That's why I turned off Sender in my Gnus settings; it's easier to do that than it is to try to argue with Eric Thomas that his software is doing something really stupid. -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: Disable generation of "Sender: " by default. 2000-12-17 22:57 ` Russ Allbery @ 2000-12-18 11:16 ` Per Abrahamsen 2000-12-18 23:44 ` Russ Allbery 0 siblings, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Per Abrahamsen @ 2000-12-18 11:16 UTC (permalink / raw) Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes: > That's why I turned off Sender in my Gnus settings; But why did Gnus generate it for you in the first place? It doesn't do that for me with mail. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: Disable generation of "Sender: " by default. 2000-12-18 11:16 ` Per Abrahamsen @ 2000-12-18 23:44 ` Russ Allbery 0 siblings, 0 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Russ Allbery @ 2000-12-18 23:44 UTC (permalink / raw) Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes: > Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes: >> That's why I turned off Sender in my Gnus settings; > But why did Gnus generate it for you in the first place? It doesn't do > that for me with mail. Gnus used to always generate Sender headers if your From header didn't match its concept of your e-mail address (which it digs out of the hostname plus the local username or some such thing). It's possible that at some point this was fixed to be less aggressive about generating a Sender header, but since I never want a Sender header on any of my mail under any circumstances, I left the setting. -- Russ Allbery (rra@stanford.edu) <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: Disable generation of "Sender: " by default. 2000-12-17 16:31 ` Stainless Steel Rat 2000-12-17 19:33 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-17 22:57 ` Russ Allbery @ 2000-12-20 10:48 ` Toby Speight 2000-12-20 20:05 ` Stainless Steel Rat 2 siblings, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Toby Speight @ 2000-12-20 10:48 UTC (permalink / raw) 0> In article <m37l4zau28.fsf@peorth.gweep.net>, 0> Stainless Steel Rat <URL:mailto:ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> ("Rat") wrote: Rat> RFC 822: Sender is the agent responsibible for submitting a Rat> message to the network when he is someone other than the Rat> originator of the message. Ie, if you write a message and I Rat> send it, you are the originator (From) and I am the submitter Rat> (Sender). Sender is generated by hand -- never software -- Rat> when more than one agent is involved. It exists only to Rat> denote this fact. Rat> Rat> RFC 1036: Sender exists as a crude authentication mechanism. Rat> Sender is the authenticated (by software) local mailbox of the Rat> originator of the message when that mailbox differs from the one Rat> in the originator header. Ie, if I am on, say, skuld.gweep.net Rat> w/ login 'ratinox' and I post a news article with Rat> 'grumble@bogus.com' as my From header, then some program Rat> somewhere must generate 'Sender: ratinox@skuld.gweep.net'. Rat> Rat> They are not even vaguely close to each other. My opinion is Rat> that RFC 1036's Sender is badly broken, because it utterly fails Rat> to accomplish its goal. RFC 822's Sender does exactly what it is Rat> intended to do, no more, no less. This is pretty much how I see it, too - except that it's impossible in general for the software to know how to find the user's "local" mailbox. So it's not reliable as a deliverable address. This was really frustrating when trying to cancel a message sent from a 100-machine workstation cluster, and only being able to do so from the exact same machine, despite the fact that they all shared the same filesystem image and MX host. :-( ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: Disable generation of "Sender: " by default. 2000-12-20 10:48 ` Toby Speight @ 2000-12-20 20:05 ` Stainless Steel Rat 0 siblings, 0 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Stainless Steel Rat @ 2000-12-20 20:05 UTC (permalink / raw) * Toby Speight <streapadair@gmx.net> on Wed, 20 Dec 2000 | This is pretty much how I see it, too - except that it's impossible | in general for the software to know how to find the user's "local" | mailbox. In the case of RFC 822 this is correct. In the case of RFC 1036... it is not an RFC 822 mailbox but user@local.fqdn. Which is not reliable. Which is why I say that RFC 1036 and son of are broken when it comes to Sender. -- Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-12 22:12 ` Kai Großjohann ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2000-12-13 8:36 ` Disable generation of "Sender: " by default Per Abrahamsen @ 2000-12-14 8:05 ` Dirk Gomez 2000-12-14 13:33 ` Kai Großjohann 3 siblings, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Dirk Gomez @ 2000-12-14 8:05 UTC (permalink / raw) So how can I set the sender field? Most people in my organization use Outlook and seeing my hostname in the reply mail is simply unappealing ;) cheers dirk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-14 8:05 ` ms outlook replyers Dirk Gomez @ 2000-12-14 13:33 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-14 15:03 ` Alan Shutko 0 siblings, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2000-12-14 13:33 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding On 14 Dec 2000, Dirk Gomez wrote: > So how can I set the sender field? Not nice, but works: (require 'message) (defadvice message-make-sender (around dirks-sender activate) "Always return Dirk's Sender header." "what.dirk.wants.for.sender") Beware, untested. kai -- A large number of young women don't trust men with beards. (BFBS Radio) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-14 13:33 ` Kai Großjohann @ 2000-12-14 15:03 ` Alan Shutko 2000-12-14 20:19 ` Nick Papadonis 0 siblings, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Alan Shutko @ 2000-12-14 15:03 UTC (permalink / raw) Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes: > On 14 Dec 2000, Dirk Gomez wrote: > > > So how can I set the sender field? > > Not nice, but works: Also not nice, but tested. (And used for the last couple years or so.) (defun message-make-sender () "Return a fake sender address because I don't like it." (message-make-address)) -- Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - In a variety of flavors! Teachers have class. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-14 15:03 ` Alan Shutko @ 2000-12-14 20:19 ` Nick Papadonis 2000-12-14 21:24 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-15 14:54 ` Paul Jarc 0 siblings, 2 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Nick Papadonis @ 2000-12-14 20:19 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Didn't work for me. I just had: X-Authentication-Warning: wash-382.res.umass.edu: nick set sender to nick@coelacanth.com using -f And no Sender field in the header. Xemacs 21.1 GNUS v5.8.8 Anyway, why isn't this configurable in the customize menus? - Nick >>>>> "Alan" == Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> writes: > Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes: >> On 14 Dec 2000, Dirk Gomez wrote: >> >> > So how can I set the sender field? >> >> Not nice, but works: > Also not nice, but tested. (And used for the last couple years > or so.) > (defun message-make-sender () "Return a fake sender address > because I don't like it." (message-make-address)) > -- Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - In a variety of flavors! > Teachers have class. -- - Nick ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-14 20:19 ` Nick Papadonis @ 2000-12-14 21:24 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-14 21:57 ` Stainless Steel Rat 2000-12-15 5:48 ` Nick Papadonis 2000-12-15 14:54 ` Paul Jarc 1 sibling, 2 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2000-12-14 21:24 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Alan Shutko, ding On 14 Dec 2000, Nick Papadonis wrote: > Didn't work for me. I just had: X-Authentication-Warning: > wash-382.res.umass.edu: nick set sender to nick@coelacanth.com using > -f And no Sender field in the header. Try (setq message-sendmail-f-is-evil t) -- does that help? > Anyway, why isn't this configurable in the customize menus? Sigh. Lars thinks that Gnus can do a perfect job of computing the Sender header, every time. So no customization would be needed. This might be true for news (I cannot say since I don't know), but I believe that it is not true for mail. In fact, the computer cannot know who is the Sender of a mail message, according to the RFC822 meaning of Sender. kai -- A large number of young women don't trust men with beards. (BFBS Radio) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-14 21:24 ` Kai Großjohann @ 2000-12-14 21:57 ` Stainless Steel Rat 2000-12-15 5:48 ` Nick Papadonis 1 sibling, 0 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Stainless Steel Rat @ 2000-12-14 21:57 UTC (permalink / raw) * Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) on Thu, 14 Dec 2000 | Sigh. Lars thinks that Gnus can do a perfect job of computing the | Sender header, every time. So no customization would be needed. This | might be true for news (I cannot say since I don't know), It does, assuming that the system itself has been correctly configured. All of the examples that I remember are really examples of changing the system configuration out from underneath running programs, rendering system-name invalid. | but I believe that it is not true for mail. In fact, the computer cannot | know who is the Sender of a mail message, according to the RFC822 meaning | of Sender. That is true. If a Sender header is required for a mail message then it should (must) be created manually by the agent that is sending the message. -- Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds. PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-14 21:24 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-14 21:57 ` Stainless Steel Rat @ 2000-12-15 5:48 ` Nick Papadonis 2000-12-15 9:34 ` Kai Großjohann 1 sibling, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Nick Papadonis @ 2000-12-15 5:48 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Alan Shutko, ding >>>>> "Kai" == Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes: > Try (setq message-sendmail-f-is-evil t) -- does that help? This is what I receive when I do that. Still doesn't work. X-From-Line: nick Thu Dec 14 23:23:25 2000 Return-Path: <nick> Received: (from nick@localhost) by wash-382.res.umass.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA21914; Thu, 14 Dec 2000 23:23:25 -0500 Sender: nick@wash-382.res.umass.edu To: nick@wash-382.res.umass.edu Subject: tnew From: Nick Papadonis <nick@coelacanth.com> Date: 14 Dec 2000 23:23:25 -0500 X-Gnus-Mail-Source: directory:~/incoming/ Message-ID: <m366km2tz6.fsf@wash-382.res.umass.edu> User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Channel Islands) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-SpamBouncer: 1.3 (11/02/00) X-SBPass: No Freemail Filtering X-SBClass: OK Lines: 4 Xref: wash-382.res.umass.edu mail.misc:729 -- - Nick ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-15 5:48 ` Nick Papadonis @ 2000-12-15 9:34 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-15 22:36 ` Nick Papadonis 0 siblings, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2000-12-15 9:34 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Alan Shutko, ding On 15 Dec 2000, Nick Papadonis wrote: >>>>>> "Kai" == Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> >>>>>> writes: > > Try (setq message-sendmail-f-is-evil t) -- does that help? > > This is what I receive when I do that. Still doesn't work. What do you mean `receive'? What you are showing doesn't look like an error message. Hm. Oh, you're saying that the From and Sender header are different. Hm. What's the value of message-deletable-headers? Check with C-h v. kai -- A large number of young women don't trust men with beards. (BFBS Radio) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-15 9:34 ` Kai Großjohann @ 2000-12-15 22:36 ` Nick Papadonis 2000-12-15 22:57 ` Kai Großjohann 0 siblings, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Nick Papadonis @ 2000-12-15 22:36 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Alan Shutko, ding (Message-ID Date Lines) >>>>> "Kai" == Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes: > Oh, you're saying that the From and Sender header are different. > Hm. What's the value of message-deletable-headers? Check with > C-h v. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-15 22:36 ` Nick Papadonis @ 2000-12-15 22:57 ` Kai Großjohann 0 siblings, 0 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2000-12-15 22:57 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Alan Shutko, ding On 15 Dec 2000, Nick Papadonis wrote: >>>>>> "Kai" == Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> >>>>>> writes: > > > Oh, you're saying that the From and Sender header are > > different. Hm. What's the value of > > message-deletable-headers? Check with C-h v. > > (Message-ID Date Lines) So that wasn't it. Sorry. I'm out of ideas. kai -- A large number of young women don't trust men with beards. (BFBS Radio) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-14 20:19 ` Nick Papadonis 2000-12-14 21:24 ` Kai Großjohann @ 2000-12-15 14:54 ` Paul Jarc 1 sibling, 0 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Paul Jarc @ 2000-12-15 14:54 UTC (permalink / raw) Nick Papadonis <nick@coelacanth.com> writes: > >>>>> "Alan" == Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> writes: > > (defun message-make-sender () "Return a fake sender address > > because I don't like it." (message-make-address)) > > Didn't work for me. > I just had: > X-Authentication-Warning: wash-382.res.umass.edu: nick set sender to nick@coelacanth.com using -f > And no Sender field in the header. Do you mean no Sender: was in the mail you received? That's the desired result, isn't it? paul ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-12 21:09 ms outlook replyers Nick Papadonis 2000-12-12 22:12 ` Kai Großjohann @ 2000-12-13 2:11 ` Colin Walters 2000-12-13 5:07 ` Nick Papadonis 2000-12-13 5:24 ` Stainless Steel Rat 1 sibling, 2 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Colin Walters @ 2000-12-13 2:11 UTC (permalink / raw) Nick Papadonis <nick@coelacanth.com> writes: > Anyone have trouble with people using MS Outlook replying to your > emails? > > For some reason (even though I have user-mail-address, > user-host-address set) when they reply, it uses my local machines > hostname and username. This is incorrect. > > Anyway to fix this, or am I doing something wrong? Yes, some applications use the Sender: address as the Reply-to field. I believe this was discussed previously on this list. I think what it came down to is that there is no consensus on what the Sender: field is really for. I eventually just changed mine to be my email address. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-13 2:11 ` Colin Walters @ 2000-12-13 5:07 ` Nick Papadonis 2000-12-13 4:47 ` Colin Walters 2000-12-13 8:49 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-13 5:24 ` Stainless Steel Rat 1 sibling, 2 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Nick Papadonis @ 2000-12-13 5:07 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: walters How did you do this? What variable is it? I was looking through customize but couldn't find anyting. >>>>> "Colin" == Colin Walters <walters@cis.ohio-state.edu> writes: > Nick Papadonis <nick@coelacanth.com> writes: >> Anyone have trouble with people using MS Outlook replying to >> your emails? >> >> For some reason (even though I have user-mail-address, >> user-host-address set) when they reply, it uses my local >> machines hostname and username. This is incorrect. >> >> Anyway to fix this, or am I doing something wrong? > Yes, some applications use the Sender: address as the Reply-to > field. I believe this was discussed previously on this list. I > think what it came down to is that there is no consensus on what > the Sender: field is really for. > I eventually just changed mine to be my email address. -- - Nick ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-13 5:07 ` Nick Papadonis @ 2000-12-13 4:47 ` Colin Walters 2000-12-13 8:49 ` Kai Großjohann 1 sibling, 0 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Colin Walters @ 2000-12-13 4:47 UTC (permalink / raw) Nick Papadonis <nick@coelacanth.com> writes: [ modifying the Sender: header ] > How did you do this? What variable is it? I was looking through > customize but couldn't find anyting. You could probably do it by adding an entry to `message-default-headers', but I just added an entry to my gnus-posting-styles. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-13 5:07 ` Nick Papadonis 2000-12-13 4:47 ` Colin Walters @ 2000-12-13 8:49 ` Kai Großjohann 1 sibling, 0 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2000-12-13 8:49 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding, walters On 13 Dec 2000, Nick Papadonis wrote: > > How did you do this? > What variable is it? I was looking through customize but couldn't > find anyting. My suggestion was to omit the Sender header, hoping that Outlook would use the From header if no Sender header is present. (add-to-list 'message-syntax-checks '(sender . disabled)) kai -- The arms should be held in a natural and unaffected way and never be conspicuous. -- Revised Technique of Latin American Dancing ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-13 2:11 ` Colin Walters 2000-12-13 5:07 ` Nick Papadonis @ 2000-12-13 5:24 ` Stainless Steel Rat 2000-12-13 6:16 ` Colin Walters 1 sibling, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Stainless Steel Rat @ 2000-12-13 5:24 UTC (permalink / raw) * Colin Walters <walters@cis.ohio-state.edu> on Tue, 12 Dec 2000 | Yes, some applications use the Sender: address as the Reply-to field. | I believe this was discussed previously on this list. I think what it | came down to is that there is no consensus on what the Sender: field | is really for. RFC 822 is describes Sender explicitly and in detail. -- Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball. Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-13 5:24 ` Stainless Steel Rat @ 2000-12-13 6:16 ` Colin Walters 2000-12-13 16:06 ` Stainless Steel Rat 0 siblings, 1 reply; 38+ messages in thread From: Colin Walters @ 2000-12-13 6:16 UTC (permalink / raw) Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> writes: > RFC 822 is describes Sender explicitly and in detail. Yes, but RFC 822 only covers electronic mail. RFC 1036 describes different semantics for the Sender header in USENET. It looks like there have been a number of discussions on this topic before; a search for "sender header" on the Gnus mailing list archives seems to reveal most of them, although not the one I remember. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
* Re: ms outlook replyers 2000-12-13 6:16 ` Colin Walters @ 2000-12-13 16:06 ` Stainless Steel Rat 0 siblings, 0 replies; 38+ messages in thread From: Stainless Steel Rat @ 2000-12-13 16:06 UTC (permalink / raw) * Colin Walters <walters@cis.ohio-state.edu> on Wed, 13 Dec 2000 | Yes, but RFC 822 only covers electronic mail. RFC 1036 describes | different semantics for the Sender header in USENET. Lookout! is an MUA, but not a Usenet client, so RFC 1036 is not applicable. -- Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> \ Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ of skin. PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 38+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2000-12-20 20:05 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 38+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2000-12-12 21:09 ms outlook replyers Nick Papadonis 2000-12-12 22:12 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-12 22:25 ` Stainless Steel Rat 2000-12-13 6:41 ` Justin Sheehy 2000-12-13 8:36 ` Disable generation of "Sender: " by default Per Abrahamsen 2000-12-13 14:05 ` Jesper Harder 2000-12-14 14:18 ` Per Abrahamsen 2000-12-14 17:58 ` Jesper Harder 2000-12-15 12:35 ` Per Abrahamsen 2000-12-15 13:19 ` Harry Putnam 2000-12-15 15:47 ` Alan Shutko 2000-12-15 14:27 ` Stainless Steel Rat 2000-12-17 12:29 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-17 16:31 ` Stainless Steel Rat 2000-12-17 19:33 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-17 22:57 ` Russ Allbery 2000-12-18 11:16 ` Per Abrahamsen 2000-12-18 23:44 ` Russ Allbery 2000-12-20 10:48 ` Toby Speight 2000-12-20 20:05 ` Stainless Steel Rat 2000-12-14 8:05 ` ms outlook replyers Dirk Gomez 2000-12-14 13:33 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-14 15:03 ` Alan Shutko 2000-12-14 20:19 ` Nick Papadonis 2000-12-14 21:24 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-14 21:57 ` Stainless Steel Rat 2000-12-15 5:48 ` Nick Papadonis 2000-12-15 9:34 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-15 22:36 ` Nick Papadonis 2000-12-15 22:57 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-15 14:54 ` Paul Jarc 2000-12-13 2:11 ` Colin Walters 2000-12-13 5:07 ` Nick Papadonis 2000-12-13 4:47 ` Colin Walters 2000-12-13 8:49 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-12-13 5:24 ` Stainless Steel Rat 2000-12-13 6:16 ` Colin Walters 2000-12-13 16:06 ` Stainless Steel Rat
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