From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/31044 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Johansson" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Python Emacs (was Re: The .. rule) Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:29:47 -0400 Sender: owner-ding@hpc.uh.edu Message-ID: <019e01bfc047$07748130$0500a8c0@rufus> References: <00May12.111709edt.115683@gateway.intersys.com><200005121547.RAA12153@marcy.cs.uni-dortmund.de> <200005172027.WAA16517@marcy.cs.uni-dortmund.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: coloc-standby.netfonds.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1035167500 11832 80.91.224.250 (21 Oct 2002 02:31:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 02:31:40 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Return-Path: Original-Received: from lisa.math.uh.edu (lisa.math.uh.edu [129.7.128.49]) by mailhost.sclp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EBE0D0520 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 17:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu (lists@Sina.HPC.UH.EDU [129.7.3.5]) by lisa.math.uh.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAB11717; Wed, 17 May 2000 16:30:47 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: by sina.hpc.uh.edu (TLB v0.09a (1.20 tibbs 1996/10/09 22:03:07)); Wed, 17 May 2000 16:30:08 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from mailhost.sclp.com (postfix@sclp3.sclp.com [204.252.123.139]) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03832 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 16:29:54 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from harvee.billerica.ma.us (harvee.ConnActivity.com [206.34.215.253]) by mailhost.sclp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47138D0521 for ; Wed, 17 May 2000 17:30:02 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from rufus (rufus.billerica.ma.us [192.168.0.5]) by harvee.billerica.ma.us (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA32336; Wed, 17 May 2000 17:29:48 -0400 Original-To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Kai_Gro=DFjohann?= , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Pinard?= X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Precedence: list X-Majordomo: 1.94.jlt7 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:31044 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:31044 ----- Original Message ----- From: "François Pinard" To: "Kai Großjohann" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 4:59 PM Subject: Re: Python Emacs (was Re: The .. rule) > Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes: > > > What's so bad about Lisp that people are requesting a Java Emacs or a > > Python Emacs or a Perl Emacs? > > No Java, no Perl, but Python! :-) > > It's just that Python is concise and legible. Perl and Java don't match. when people ask for scripting in , all they are asking for use for the tool to accommodate their current knowledgebase. Lisp has an perceived extremely high learning curve. When people are trying to solve a problem with a tool, the last thing they want to be told is that they need to discard what they know and learn a new way of thinking. When a user is told they need to climb a very large learning curve, the usual reaction is to put the software on the shelf and do things the brute force/bloody ignorance way because it is perceived as easier. A case in point is Gnus. I'm very impressed at its power but using it to read IMAP e-mail is sufficiently difficult that I've given up and gone back to outlook (or pine on heavy virus days). One of these days when I have a week to spare, I'll go back to using it as my newsreader. For now, tin is sufficiently simple that I can do what I want without needing to spend a lot of time learning. As an aside, I stay on the list because I am collecting bits of emacs knowledge I find very useful and I'm willing to learn slowly if I don't need it (the knowledge) right now. > Yesterday, I rewrote in Python a little piece of Emacs LISP code. Not only > it used less vertical space, but it became much clearer. Always the same > story, for the few times I did this, so far. But these were always toys. > I honestly do not know how it would go for a major piece of code, and how to > organise on a large scale a few LISP idioms which do not translate well in > Python. But more it goes, more I dare to think that Python might be usable. I would love to see emacs integrate python and/or Perl as a first-class scripting language like lisp with complete access to all of the internals and primitive functions. it would be extremely powerful (not to mention large :-) --- eric