From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/44904 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stainless Steel Rat Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Who sets Sender:? Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 11:04:32 -0400 Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade Sender: owner-ding@hpc.uh.edu Message-ID: <02May21.105936edt.119176@gateway.intersystems.com> References: <87bsbak1ws.fsf@nwalsh.com> <87d6vqtqnv.fsf@squeaker.lickey.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1021993670 32412 127.0.0.1 (21 May 2002 15:07:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 15:07:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ding@gnus.org Return-path: Original-Received: from malifon.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.13]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 17ABEs-0008QY-00 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 17:07:50 +0200 Original-Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu ([129.7.128.10] ident=lists) by malifon.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 17ABES-0001P3-00; Tue, 21 May 2002 10:07:24 -0500 Original-Received: by sina.hpc.uh.edu (TLB v0.09a (1.20 tibbs 1996/10/09 22:03:07)); Tue, 21 May 2002 10:07:42 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from sclp3.sclp.com (qmailr@sclp3.sclp.com [209.196.61.66]) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA09655 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 10:07:31 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: (qmail 25060 invoked by alias); 21 May 2002 15:07:08 -0000 Original-Received: (qmail 25055 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 15:07:07 -0000 Original-Received: from gateway.intersys.com (HELO intersystems.com) (198.133.74.253) by gnus.org with SMTP; 21 May 2002 15:07:07 -0000 Original-Received: by gateway.intersystems.com id <119176>; Tue, 21 May 2002 10:59:36 -0400 Original-To: Norman Walsh X-Attribution: Rat In-Reply-To: (prj@po.cwru.edu's message of "Tue, 21 May 2002 10:14:19 -0400") Original-Lines: 60 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090006 (Oort Gnus v0.06) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley, i686-pc-linux) Precedence: list X-Majordomo: 1.94.jlt7 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:44904 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:44904 * prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) on Tue, 21 May 2002 | It might also help if you quoted the part of RFC 2822 that makes you | think this is relevant. Because a mailbox is not necessarilly used by the person who uses the account. It could be the vacation program invoked by the user's .forward file. Because a mailbox is not necessarilly a single person. A mailbox may be shared by several people. Because a mailbox may not be a person at all. It could be a program like Mailman sending out its monthly reminders to list subscribers. If RFC 2822 is interpreted such that a single user has a single identity with many mailboxes, then you need to start making exceptions for special cases and conditionalizing others. On the other hand, if RFC 2822 is interpreted such that a single user has many identities, each associated with different mailboxes, then you do not need to make exceptions for special cases, because that way all cases become one of the two cases specifically defined by RFC 2822. [...] | That fact that you can be indicated by two distinct mailboxes doesn't | change the fact that you can also be indicated by a single mailbox. If that statement were true, then by strictest reading of RFC 2822, mail that I send as samurairat@spamcop.net from ratinox@ccs.neu.edu should never have a Sender header. This is wrong. [...] | I think, rather, that Gnus is attempting to adhere to RFC 1036, which | specifies different semantics for Sender. Gnus sloppily uses the same | behavior for mail because it's easier than using different behavior | for mail and news, and because Sender is unimportant for mail. This is true, on both counts. Sender -is- unimportant for mail. My opinion is that Sender should never be generated automatically for mail. | > Also, be aware that the Sender header must never be used for anything but | > human consumption. | What does this mean, exactly? If I want to reply to a message and | send the response to the Sender address, should my MUA stop me? Or | just not provide any easy way to do this? Or just not make it the | default reply address? It means exactly that. It exists solely for the purpose of letting the recipient of a message know that the agent who sent it is somehow different from the one who wrote it. It serves no technical function. The default reply address is the From field. The default reply address can be changed by the originator by setting a Reply-To header. Your MUA is very broken if it uses the Sender address over From or Reply-To. -- Rat \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete. Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ That and five bucks will get you a small coffee at Starbucks.