From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/44917 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stainless Steel Rat Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Who sets Sender:? Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 17:16:36 -0400 Organization: The Happy Fun Ball Brigade Sender: owner-ding@hpc.uh.edu Message-ID: <02May21.171141edt.119208@gateway.intersystems.com> References: <87bsbak1ws.fsf@nwalsh.com> <87d6vqtqnv.fsf@squeaker.lickey.com> <02May21.105936edt.119176@gateway.intersystems.com> <02May21.122206edt.119093@gateway.intersystems.com> <02May21.142858edt.119269@gateway.intersystems.com> <02May21.154121edt.119281@gateway.intersystems.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1022015992 18196 127.0.0.1 (21 May 2002 21:19:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:19:52 +0000 (UTC) Return-path: Original-Received: from malifon.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.13]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1 (Debian)) id 17AH2t-0004jM-00 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 23:19:52 +0200 Original-Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu ([129.7.128.10] ident=lists) by malifon.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 17AH2S-0003Ok-00; Tue, 21 May 2002 16:19:24 -0500 Original-Received: by sina.hpc.uh.edu (TLB v0.09a (1.20 tibbs 1996/10/09 22:03:07)); Tue, 21 May 2002 16:19:43 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: from sclp3.sclp.com (qmailr@sclp3.sclp.com [209.196.61.66]) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA11089 for ; Tue, 21 May 2002 16:19:30 -0500 (CDT) Original-Received: (qmail 5052 invoked by alias); 21 May 2002 21:19:07 -0000 Original-Received: (qmail 5047 invoked from network); 21 May 2002 21:19:07 -0000 Original-Received: from gateway.intersys.com (HELO intersystems.com) (198.133.74.253) by gnus.org with SMTP; 21 May 2002 21:19:07 -0000 Original-Received: by gateway.intersystems.com id <119208>; Tue, 21 May 2002 17:11:41 -0400 Original-To: ding@gnus.org X-Attribution: Rat In-Reply-To: (prj@po.cwru.edu's message of "Tue, 21 May 2002 16:13:32 -0400") Original-Lines: 61 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090006 (Oort Gnus v0.06) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley, i686-pc-linux) Precedence: list X-Majordomo: 1.94.jlt7 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:44917 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:44917 * prj@po.cwru.edu (Paul Jarc) on Tue, 21 May 2002 | Is the MUA supposed to be able to determine when Sender is needed? If the user fails to create a Sender header when it is required then the MUA needs to be able to do so. In many (most?) cases the MUA must guess because it cannot read the minds of the originator or sender. | That criterion is satisfied equally well by either of our definitions. Thus does not invalidate either of them. | > and that an attempt has been made at getting the address correct if the | > user has not done so himself. | I can't find that criterion in RFC 2822. Can you point it out? Definition of addr-spec plus requirements of RFC 2821 and the other protocols involved in mail handling. | Even assuming this criterion, the MUA is extremely limited in its | ability to construct a correct address. This is true, however... | user@hostname is often not a working address - I'd say it's wrong more | often than right. ... if your site is configured properly, with a wildcard MX record for your entire (sub)domain pointing to your site's mail server, and aliases or mailer tables for mapping your users' login names to mailboxes, then user@hostname will always be a working address. | It seems to me that even for an MUA that wants to satisfy your position, | it cannot do any better, on average, than leaving From and Sender | entirely to the user. The MUA cannot do it alone. It needs help. I have always stood by that statement. A properly configured site will have the resources in place so that the MUA can guess correctly, or so that its guesses are always correct. [...] | Yes, but you also (seem to) take the extra step of claiming that RFC | 2822 demands this of you. I'm not saying that you shouldn't configure | your network that way, or that RFC 2822 claims that you shouldn't. | I'm saying that RFC 2822 *doesn't* say that you *should*; it is silent | on this issue. Because site configuration is outside of the scope of RFC 2822. So is Gnus configuration. What RFC 2822 demands is that mail messages be formatted correctly. Your solution, leaving the site broken and changing Gnus' default behaviour, may cause Gnus to construct illegal headers. My solution, fixing the site and leaving Gnus alone, will never cause Gnus to create illegal headers. Your solution addresses a symptom of a problem and may create another problem. My solution addresses the problem and prevents other problems. -- Rat \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core, Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should PGP Key: at a key server near you! \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at. That and five bucks will get you a small coffee at Starbucks.