* new feature for Red - adaptive scoring @ 1996-01-25 17:13 Jack Vinson 1996-01-25 21:33 ` Jason L Tibbitts III 1996-01-26 16:46 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Jack Vinson @ 1996-01-25 17:13 UTC (permalink / raw) Okay, so I've been using adaptive scoring for quite a while and have built up some impressive scores for people who talk a lot. Is there a way for us to set maximum and minimum values for adaptive scores on the "from" and "subject" lines? Something like '(("from" . (-100 100)) ("subject" . (-500 500))) which could maybe be added to the gnus-adaptive-score-alist or to yet another global variable that can be overridden in a group's .SCORE file. Does this sound useful? -- Jack Vinson jvinson@cheux.ecs.umass.edu "Narf!" - Pinky <http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~vinson/home.html> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: new feature for Red - adaptive scoring 1996-01-25 17:13 new feature for Red - adaptive scoring Jack Vinson @ 1996-01-25 21:33 ` Jason L Tibbitts III 1996-01-26 16:46 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1996-01-26 16:46 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Jason L Tibbitts III @ 1996-01-25 21:33 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> "JV" == Jack Vinson <jvinson@cheux.ecs.umass.edu> writes: JV> [...] Is there a way for us to set maximum and minimum values for JV> adaptive scores on the "from" and "subject" lines? [...] JV> Does this sound useful? I think this makes a lot of sense. I also think that we should again try to look at improving fuzzy matching with at least things like common word elimination. - J< ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: new feature for Red - adaptive scoring 1996-01-25 21:33 ` Jason L Tibbitts III @ 1996-01-26 16:46 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1996-01-26 17:18 ` Joe Hildebrand 0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1996-01-26 16:46 UTC (permalink / raw) Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu> writes: > I also think that we should again try to look at improving fuzzy > matching with at least things like common word elimination. I think we should do that single-word adaption scheme that Per suggested many moons ago. If you read an article that has a Subject called "Gnus, Emacs and other animals", other articles that have the words "Gnus", "Emacs" and "animals" should get higher scores. I've now added it to the Red Gnus todo list. -- "Yes. The journey through the human heart would have to wait until some other time." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: new feature for Red - adaptive scoring 1996-01-26 16:46 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1996-01-26 17:18 ` Joe Hildebrand 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Joe Hildebrand @ 1996-01-26 17:18 UTC (permalink / raw) > "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes: Lars> I think we should do that single-word adaption scheme that Lars> Per suggested many moons ago. If you read an article that Lars> has a Subject called "Gnus, Emacs and other animals", other Lars> articles that have the words "Gnus", "Emacs" and "animals" Lars> should get higher scores. We were also going to have a "psychoanalyze-score-file" function that would be able to create a psychological profile of you from the words that caught your attention. I guess that can be a lower priority. :) -- Joe Hildebrand Fuentez Systems Concepts hildjj@fuentez.com 11781 Lee-Jackson Hwy, Suite 700 Lead Software Engineer Fairfax, VA 22033 "Breakfast recapitulates phylogeny" - Spider Robinson ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: new feature for Red - adaptive scoring 1996-01-25 17:13 new feature for Red - adaptive scoring Jack Vinson 1996-01-25 21:33 ` Jason L Tibbitts III @ 1996-01-26 16:46 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1996-01-26 17:52 ` Wes Hardaker 1996-01-26 18:55 ` Steven L Baur 1 sibling, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1996-01-26 16:46 UTC (permalink / raw) jvinson@cheux.ecs.umass.edu (Jack Vinson) writes: > Okay, so I've been using adaptive scoring for quite a while and have built > up some impressive scores for people who talk a lot. Is there a way for us > to set maximum and minimum values for adaptive scores on the "from" and > "subject" lines? > > Something like '(("from" . (-100 100)) ("subject" . (-500 500))) which > could maybe be added to the gnus-adaptive-score-alist or to yet another > global variable that can be overridden in a group's .SCORE file. I think a general "score decay" function might be more useful. For instance, the scores could decay by 5% every time you read the score file. Or something like that -- I'm sure somebody could come up with a nice function that would prohibit scores from reaching infinity while still letting "good" articles get a higher score than "bad" ones. -- "Yes. The journey through the human heart would have to wait until some other time." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: new feature for Red - adaptive scoring 1996-01-26 16:46 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1996-01-26 17:52 ` Wes Hardaker 1996-01-26 22:10 ` Sean Lynch 1996-01-27 20:33 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1996-01-26 18:55 ` Steven L Baur 1 sibling, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Wes Hardaker @ 1996-01-26 17:52 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding larsi@ifi.uio.no (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen) writes: |> I think a general "score decay" function might be more useful. Awesome. This would also take care of those stupid threads that I got tired of reading because they turned into a different subject all together. I'm not sure you can do it with percentiles though. Postive scores would never get to 0, which you'ld definately want. I think a better thing to do would be to have it change by a set amount each time. Positive scores should drop by say 3-5 unless the current score was under that, then should drop to 0. Negative scores would do the same. That way old threads no longer existing would eventually end up at 0 in case some other dingo came along and started a new topic with the same subject. Wheeeee ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: new feature for Red - adaptive scoring 1996-01-26 17:52 ` Wes Hardaker @ 1996-01-26 22:10 ` Sean Lynch 1996-01-27 20:33 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1996-01-29 19:07 ` Edward J. Sabol 1996-01-27 20:33 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Sean Lynch @ 1996-01-26 22:10 UTC (permalink / raw) I would use the following function: (setq score (- score (* (sign score) (min score (max gnus-score-decay-constant (* (abs score) gnus-score-decay-scale)))))) Let's say gnus-score-decay-scale is set to 0.05 and gnus-score-decay-constant is 3, this should cause the following: Scores between -3 and 3 will be set to 0 when this function is called. Scores with magnitudes between 3 and 60 will be shrunk by 3. Scores with magnutudes greater than 60 will be shrunk by 5% of the score. This would make the score decay work very similarly to the way living systems learn. We could even make this an exponential function of the time since the last time it was called on a given score. We need to make sure, though, that this function is called a definite number of times, so that we can define its behavior. "This function sets all scores to 0 within five minutes of starting Gnus." Perhaps it should be related to the number of articles that come through that are affected by a given score. This way, when a thread dies, all scores related to it die more quickly. Just a thought. >>>>> "Wes" == Wes Hardaker <hardaker@ece.ucdavis.edu> writes: Wes> larsi@ifi.uio.no (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen) writes: Wes> |> I think a general "score decay" function might be more Wes> useful. Wes> Awesome. This would also take care of those stupid threads Wes> that I got tired of reading because they turned into a Wes> different subject all together. Wes> I'm not sure you can do it with percentiles though. Postive Wes> scores would never get to 0, which you'ld definately want. I Wes> think a better thing to do would be to have it change by a Wes> set amount each time. Positive scores should drop by say 3-5 Wes> unless the current score was under that, then should drop to Wes> 0. Negative scores would do the same. That way old threads Wes> no longer existing would eventually end up at 0 in case some Wes> other dingo came along and started a new topic with the same Wes> subject. Wes> Wheeeee ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: new feature for Red - adaptive scoring 1996-01-26 22:10 ` Sean Lynch @ 1996-01-27 20:33 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1996-01-29 16:55 ` Wes Hardaker 1996-01-29 19:07 ` Edward J. Sabol 1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1996-01-27 20:33 UTC (permalink / raw) nc0273@experience.corp.netcom.com (Sean Lynch) writes: > (setq score (- score (* (sign score) (min score (max > gnus-score-decay-constant (* (abs score) > gnus-score-decay-scale)))))) Yup. I've added it to the Red Gnus todo list. > We need to make sure, though, that this function is called a definite > number of times, so that we can define its behavior. > > "This function sets all scores to 0 within five minutes of starting Gnus." We'd need to add a new atom to the score alists -- `(decay-date 435532)' that says what day the decay thing was done last. The decay function should be run once a day, so if you start Gnus after not using it for four days, perhaps Gnus should decay all scores four times? -- "Yes. The journey through the human heart would have to wait until some other time." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: new feature for Red - adaptive scoring 1996-01-27 20:33 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1996-01-29 16:55 ` Wes Hardaker 0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Wes Hardaker @ 1996-01-29 16:55 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding larsi@ifi.uio.no (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen) writes: |> We'd need to add a new atom to the score alists -- `(decay-date 435532)' |> that says what day the decay thing was done last. The decay function |> should be run once a day, so if you start Gnus after not using it for |> four days, perhaps Gnus should decay all scores four times? Ahh... now see... this is a good example of what happens when someone responds to mail before reading the rest of the mailbox. :-0 Sorry about the previous, Me ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: new feature for Red - adaptive scoring 1996-01-26 22:10 ` Sean Lynch 1996-01-27 20:33 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1996-01-29 19:07 ` Edward J. Sabol 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Edward J. Sabol @ 1996-01-29 19:07 UTC (permalink / raw) Excerpts from mail: (26-Jan-96) Re: new feature for Red - adaptive scoring by Sean Lynch > Perhaps it should be related to the number of articles that come > through that are affected by a given score. This way, when a thread > dies, all scores related to it die more quickly. Yes, I like this idea a lot. That would be pretty useful, but there would still have to be a method to have permanent scores for user-selectable topics, of course. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: new feature for Red - adaptive scoring 1996-01-26 17:52 ` Wes Hardaker 1996-01-26 22:10 ` Sean Lynch @ 1996-01-27 20:33 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1996-01-28 20:05 ` Brian Edmonds 1996-01-29 16:53 ` Wes Hardaker 1 sibling, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1996-01-27 20:33 UTC (permalink / raw) Wes Hardaker <hardaker@ece.ucdavis.edu> writes: > I'm not sure you can do it with percentiles though. Postive scores > would never get to 0, which you'ld definately want. I think a better > thing to do would be to have it change by a set amount each time. > Positive scores should drop by say 3-5 unless the current score was > under that, then should drop to 0. Negative scores would do the same. > That way old threads no longer existing would eventually end up at 0 > in case some other dingo came along and started a new topic with the > same subject. Score rules that haven't been used for 7 days (or so) are removed, so that shouldn't really be a problem, I would think... The point of the decay thing is to avoid having all the things you like reach posinf while the things you don't like would reach neginf, isn't it? -- "Yes. The journey through the human heart would have to wait until some other time." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: new feature for Red - adaptive scoring 1996-01-27 20:33 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1996-01-28 20:05 ` Brian Edmonds 1996-01-29 16:53 ` Wes Hardaker 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Brian Edmonds @ 1996-01-28 20:05 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes: Lars> The point of the decay thing is to avoid having all the things you Lars> like reach posinf while the things you don't like would reach Lars> neginf, isn't it? Well, as the person who originally suggested aging of adaptive scores way back when[1], I pretty much agree with Lars. As I see it, adaptive scoring mostly gets rid of noisy topics and people, with the side advantage of highlighting interesting topics and people. However, both topics and people change, but may not go away completely. So it would be nice for them to be able to fade in and out over time, which a percentage decay towards zero would accomplish. I also think that the max/min (at least max :) adaptive score is a good idea. With my scoring scheme, once anyone gets to a couple hundred or so, they really aren't any more interesting after going up another couple hundred, and scores too large tend to screw up formatting of my summary buffers. :) Brian. [1] See the mailing list archives starting towards the end of Feb95. Unfortunately, I had neither the time, nor the necessary experience with elisp (particularly with Gnus internals) to implement it. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: new feature for Red - adaptive scoring 1996-01-27 20:33 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1996-01-28 20:05 ` Brian Edmonds @ 1996-01-29 16:53 ` Wes Hardaker 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Wes Hardaker @ 1996-01-29 16:53 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding larsi@ifi.uio.no (Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen) writes: |> Score rules that haven't been used for 7 days (or so) are removed, so |> that shouldn't really be a problem, I would think... The point of the |> decay thing is to avoid having all the things you like reach posinf |> while the things you don't like would reach neginf, isn't it? True, however in some cases you want to come close. Take for instance, really annoying threads that have gone on way too long you actually want to make sure that it makes it below the 'mark' or 'expunge' values. This will become increasingly hard to do if you have a percentile based system. The other problem is that it greatly depends on the frequency with which you use gnus. For instance, if you read gnus 2-3 times a day, then every time you load the score file your scores drop by a percentage. Now, since very few articles will get posted during that time, your scores will be aftected drasticlaly. Then there is the guy that reads articles gnus once in a blue moon. He'll barely decrease his scores upon load and then read, say, 100 articles with the same subject which will greatly increase the score for that subject. The guy that read the gnus 3 times a day probably entered the group and had no articles with the subject in question, and thereby only decreased his score. I've certainly rambled about this far long enough for even the most basic of infants could understand my thoughts... err, I could have written this so incoherently that no-one will understand it either I suppose. Wow. Monday mornings. Anyway, I like the suggestion at the end of the week about have a variable that is a list contains the rules to use and when. IE, if abs(score) < 50 then decrease by 5 pts if abs(score) >= 50 then decrease by 5% or something of that nature. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: new feature for Red - adaptive scoring 1996-01-26 16:46 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1996-01-26 17:52 ` Wes Hardaker @ 1996-01-26 18:55 ` Steven L Baur 1 sibling, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread From: Steven L Baur @ 1996-01-26 18:55 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> "Lars" == Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes: Lars> jvinson@cheux.ecs.umass.edu (Jack Vinson) writes: >> Okay, so I've been using adaptive scoring for quite a while and have built >> up some impressive scores for people who talk a lot. Is there a way for us >> to set maximum and minimum values for adaptive scores on the "from" and >> "subject" lines? >> >> Something like '(("from" . (-100 100)) ("subject" . (-500 500))) which >> could maybe be added to the gnus-adaptive-score-alist or to yet another >> global variable that can be overridden in a group's .SCORE file. Lars> I think a general "score decay" function might be more useful. For Lars> instance, the scores could decay by 5% every time you read the score Lars> file. You could have something based on the number of times a scoring rule has been applied to read articles. I think the best way to do this would be to gradually decay positive scores, and increase negative scores. That way it would take fewer kills to get rid of a thread that has a taken a wrong turn somewhere. -- steve@miranova.com baur Unsolicited commercial e-mail will be proofread for $250/hour. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1996-01-29 19:07 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 14+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 1996-01-25 17:13 new feature for Red - adaptive scoring Jack Vinson 1996-01-25 21:33 ` Jason L Tibbitts III 1996-01-26 16:46 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1996-01-26 17:18 ` Joe Hildebrand 1996-01-26 16:46 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1996-01-26 17:52 ` Wes Hardaker 1996-01-26 22:10 ` Sean Lynch 1996-01-27 20:33 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1996-01-29 16:55 ` Wes Hardaker 1996-01-29 19:07 ` Edward J. Sabol 1996-01-27 20:33 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1996-01-28 20:05 ` Brian Edmonds 1996-01-29 16:53 ` Wes Hardaker 1996-01-26 18:55 ` Steven L Baur
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