* newsgroup variables @ 2000-04-24 14:30 Shenghuo ZHU 2000-04-24 16:24 ` Kai Großjohann 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Shenghuo ZHU @ 2000-04-24 14:30 UTC (permalink / raw) I am going to add a feature that enable users to customize variables as newsgroup variables, i.e. variables that have separate values in newsgroups. Thoughts? -- Shenghuo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: newsgroup variables 2000-04-24 14:30 newsgroup variables Shenghuo ZHU @ 2000-04-24 16:24 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-04-24 17:04 ` Shenghuo ZHU 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2000-04-24 16:24 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Shenghuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes: > I am going to add a feature that enable users to customize variables > as newsgroup variables, i.e. variables that have separate values in > newsgroups. Hm. In what way is this different than the variables you can already configure in the group parameters? One thing which would be nice is this: some variables are used in the summary buffer, others are used in the article buffer, and still others are used in the message buffers that are created from the summary buffer. Could you do stuff that copies the variables over to all these buffers so that the right thing happens? kai -- Beware of flying birch trees. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: newsgroup variables 2000-04-24 16:24 ` Kai Großjohann @ 2000-04-24 17:04 ` Shenghuo ZHU 2000-04-24 18:44 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-04-25 13:22 ` Per Abrahamsen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Shenghuo ZHU @ 2000-04-24 17:04 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> "KG" == Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes: KG> Shenghuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes: >> I am going to add a feature that enable users to customize variables >> as newsgroup variables, i.e. variables that have separate values in >> newsgroups. KG> Hm. In what way is this different than the variables you can KG> already configure in the group parameters? Newsgroup variables are like local variables. They are associated to the current "active" group. For example, you want to use gnus-use-cache with different values for different groups. But when you have two summary buffers at the same time, the second group setting may override the first one. It may simply solved by making those variables as local variables of the summary buffer, but the article buffer may use the variables also. The implementation is just like gnus-newsgroup-name does, i.e. replacing the global values with the local values after switching to a summary buffer. Group parameters are not variables. To access variables, you have to call get-parameter functions. And you can not use gnus-use-cache as a group parameter. KG> One thing which would be nice is this: some variables are used in KG> the summary buffer, others are used in the article buffer, and KG> still others are used in the message buffers that are created from KG> the summary buffer. Could you do stuff that copies the variables KG> over to all these buffers so that the right thing happens? The variables are not copied to all these buffers, just copied globally. Actually, the article buffer has few local variables besides gnus-summary-buffer. I can not find that the message buffer has such a local variable. Maybe we should make one. -- Shenghuo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: newsgroup variables 2000-04-24 17:04 ` Shenghuo ZHU @ 2000-04-24 18:44 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-04-25 13:22 ` Per Abrahamsen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2000-04-24 18:44 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Shenghuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes: > Newsgroup variables are like local variables. They are associated to > the current "active" group. For example, you want to use > gnus-use-cache with different values for different groups. But when > you have two summary buffers at the same time, the second group > setting may override the first one. It may simply solved by making > those variables as local variables of the summary buffer, Yes, that's the way I did it. > but the article buffer may use the variables also. Like I said, I think many local variables should be copied all over the place by Gnus. > The implementation is just like gnus-newsgroup-name does, > i.e. replacing the global values with the local values after > switching to a summary buffer. Err, hm. I don't know anything about the implementation of gnus-newsgroup-name, but I'll go look. > Group parameters are not variables. To access variables, you have to > call get-parameter functions. And you can not use gnus-use-cache as a > group parameter. After typing `G c' in the Group buffer, it is possible to set local variables in addition to group parameters. I'm not sure what happens when one does that, though. > KG> One thing which would be nice is this: some variables are used in > KG> the summary buffer, others are used in the article buffer, and > KG> still others are used in the message buffers that are created from > KG> the summary buffer. Could you do stuff that copies the variables > KG> over to all these buffers so that the right thing happens? > > The variables are not copied to all these buffers, just copied > globally. Actually, the article buffer has few local variables besides > gnus-summary-buffer. I can not find that the message buffer has such a > local variable. Maybe we should make one. ??? I think I'll go read the sources, first. I can't make heads nor tails of what you're saying :-) Not your fault, of course. kai -- Beware of flying birch trees. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: newsgroup variables 2000-04-24 17:04 ` Shenghuo ZHU 2000-04-24 18:44 ` Kai Großjohann @ 2000-04-25 13:22 ` Per Abrahamsen 2000-04-26 12:31 ` Janne Rinta-Manty 1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Per Abrahamsen @ 2000-04-25 13:22 UTC (permalink / raw) Shenghuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes: > Group parameters are not variables. To access variables, you have to > call get-parameter functions. And you can not use gnus-use-cache as a > group parameter. Yes, but you are also supposed to be able to set ordinary variables with the group parameters mechanism: Gnus> `(VARIABLE FORM)' Gnus> You can use the group parameters to set variables local to the Gnus> group you are entering. If you want to turn threading off in Gnus> `news.answers', you could put `(gnus-show-threads nil)' in the Gnus> group parameters of that group. `gnus-show-threads' will be made Gnus> into a local variable in the summary buffer you enter, and the form Gnus> `nil' will be `eval'ed there. Gnus> Gnus> This can also be used as a group-specific hook function, if you'd Gnus> like. If you want to hear a beep when you enter a group, you could Gnus> put something like `(dummy-variable (ding))' in the parameters of Gnus> that group. `dummy-variable' will be set to the result of the Gnus> `(ding)' form, but who cares? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: newsgroup variables 2000-04-25 13:22 ` Per Abrahamsen @ 2000-04-26 12:31 ` Janne Rinta-Manty 2000-04-26 12:42 ` Kai Großjohann 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Janne Rinta-Manty @ 2000-04-26 12:31 UTC (permalink / raw) Per Abrahamsen 2000-04-25T13:24:17Z: PA> Shenghuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes: >> Group parameters are not variables. To access variables, you have to >> call get-parameter functions. And you can not use gnus-use-cache as a >> group parameter. PA> Yes, but you are also supposed to be able to set ordinary variables PA> with the group parameters mechanism: Gnus> `(VARIABLE FORM)' Gnus> You can use the group parameters to set variables local to the Gnus> group you are entering. If you want to turn threading off in Gnus> `news.answers', you could put `(gnus-show-threads nil)' in the Gnus> group parameters of that group. `gnus-show-threads' will be Gnus> made into a local variable in the summary buffer you enter, and ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Gnus> the form `nil' will be `eval'ed there. Yes, I've been using this feature. It works fine with variables that have something to do with the summary. Recently I tried to set gnus-part-display-hook for a couple of groups using group parameters and got hit by the underlined part above. Of course it was obvious when I realized why it wasn't working, but it took me some time... I wonder if it would be The Right Thing to "inherit" (some) variables group -> summary -> article/message? Or would it make things too complex / break something? -- Janne Rinta-Mänty ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: newsgroup variables 2000-04-26 12:31 ` Janne Rinta-Manty @ 2000-04-26 12:42 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-04-26 13:39 ` Shenghuo ZHU 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2000-04-26 12:42 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Janne Rinta-Manty <jrm@iki.fi> writes: > I wonder if it would be The Right Thing to "inherit" (some) variables > group -> summary -> article/message? Or would it make things too > complex / break something? I think there is already code that clones some variables from the article or summary buffer to the message buffer, and I think the same mechanism should be used for cloning from the summary buffer to the article buffer. kai -- Beware of flying birch trees. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: newsgroup variables 2000-04-26 12:42 ` Kai Großjohann @ 2000-04-26 13:39 ` Shenghuo ZHU 2000-04-26 15:58 ` Kai Großjohann 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Shenghuo ZHU @ 2000-04-26 13:39 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> "KG" == Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes: KG> Janne Rinta-Manty <jrm@iki.fi> writes: >> I wonder if it would be The Right Thing to "inherit" (some) variables >> group -> summary -> article/message? Or would it make things too >> complex / break something? KG> I think there is already code that clones some variables from the KG> article or summary buffer to the message buffer, and I think the KG> same mechanism should be used for cloning from the summary buffer KG> to the article buffer. Is it helpful to provide a simple mechanism to do this? I mean, what you need to do is just (push 'the-variable gnus-newsgroup-variables). You need not care which buffer it should be copied to. -- Shenghuo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: newsgroup variables 2000-04-26 13:39 ` Shenghuo ZHU @ 2000-04-26 15:58 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-04-26 17:24 ` Shenghuo ZHU 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2000-04-26 15:58 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Shenghuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes: > Is it helpful to provide a simple mechanism to do this? I mean, what > you need to do is just (push 'the-variable gnus-newsgroup-variables). > You need not care which buffer it should be copied to. What you're proposing sounds way cool. I think it could also replace message-clone-locals, the old mechanism (for copying variables from the summary buffer to a message buffer, I think). kai -- Beware of flying birch trees. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: newsgroup variables 2000-04-26 15:58 ` Kai Großjohann @ 2000-04-26 17:24 ` Shenghuo ZHU 2000-04-26 20:09 ` Kai Großjohann 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Shenghuo ZHU @ 2000-04-26 17:24 UTC (permalink / raw) >>>>> "KG" == Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes: KG> Shenghuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes: >> Is it helpful to provide a simple mechanism to do this? I mean, what >> you need to do is just (push 'the-variable gnus-newsgroup-variables). >> You need not care which buffer it should be copied to. KG> What you're proposing sounds way cool. I think it could also KG> replace message-clone-locals, the old mechanism (for copying KG> variables from the summary buffer to a message buffer, I think). I think the mechanism of message-clone-locals is too aggressive. At least I found a bug because of message-clone-locals. I need a list of variables that are used in message buffer, so that they can be explicitly listed in the gnus-newsgroup-variables. I also think whether those variables should be cloned. If only one copy is kept in summary buffer, you can not get those value after exiting the summary buffer. Sometimes, messages are sent after user exits the current summary buffer. If this were a problem, we would have got a big trouble to send emails from nndraft:drafts, where those variables are not kept at all. -- Shenghuo ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: newsgroup variables 2000-04-26 17:24 ` Shenghuo ZHU @ 2000-04-26 20:09 ` Kai Großjohann 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2000-04-26 20:09 UTC (permalink / raw) Shenghuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes: > I think the mechanism of message-clone-locals is too aggressive. _I_ think it isn't aggressive enough :-) But OTOH, I can't remember a case where I was bit by this, so maybe I shouldn't be talking too loudly. I think your approach of having a list of variables to copy is a Good Thing; this way people can control exactly what variables are copied. But we should think about the interface for naive users. Suppose somebody sets a variable local to a group via `G c'. Then that person will surely expect this change to `just work', even if the variable is actually used in the article buffer, say. (Just to take an example -- what about fill-column? Presumably, `W w' and `W Q' in summary mode take into account that variable (I haven't checked), but the variable is used in the article buffer. Surely, people will be surprised when they frob fill-column from the group parameters and nothing changes.) What can be done about this? Would it be enough to document this in the buffer that appears after `G c'? kai -- Beware of flying birch trees. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2000-04-26 20:09 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2000-04-24 14:30 newsgroup variables Shenghuo ZHU 2000-04-24 16:24 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-04-24 17:04 ` Shenghuo ZHU 2000-04-24 18:44 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-04-25 13:22 ` Per Abrahamsen 2000-04-26 12:31 ` Janne Rinta-Manty 2000-04-26 12:42 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-04-26 13:39 ` Shenghuo ZHU 2000-04-26 15:58 ` Kai Großjohann 2000-04-26 17:24 ` Shenghuo ZHU 2000-04-26 20:09 ` Kai Großjohann
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