From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/33520 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Eichwalder Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: tick and backtick in unicode Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 05:19:44 +0100 (CET) Sender: owner-ding@hpc.uh.edu Message-ID: <20001130041944.04B0BDB16E@tux.gnu.franken.de> References: <00Aug28.151432edt.115218@gateway.intersys.com> <00Aug28.173634edt.115213@gateway.intersys.com> <200009051429.PAA09826@djlvig.dl.ac.uk> <200009082240.XAA16800@djlvig.dl.ac.uk> <87n1h86w6a.fsf@deneb.enyo.de> <200009181407.PAA02748@djlvig.dl.ac.uk> <87wvg7roi1.fsf@deneb.enyo.de> <871ywi31rj.fsf@deneb.enyo.de> <20001127134028.44631F705@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca> <87y9y5a3ff.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id> <20001127165629.2A72F231C6@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca> <20001127194722.59B38DD432@tux.gnu.franken.de> <20001128060122.C12DC231C6@titan.progiciels-bpi.ca> <20001129054556.6773DDB0FB@tux.gnu.franken.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: coloc-standby.netfonds.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1035169611 25584 80.91.224.250 (21 Oct 2002 03:06:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 03:06:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ding@gnus.org Return-Path: Original-Received: from spinoza.math.uh.edu (spinoza.math.uh.edu [129.7.128.18]) by mailhost.sclp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A78CDD049A for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:24:03 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu (lists@Sina.HPC.UH.EDU [129.7.3.5]) by spinoza.math.uh.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAB24329; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:20:34 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: by sina.hpc.uh.edu (TLB v0.09a (1.20 tibbs 1996/10/09 22:03:07)); Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:19:54 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: from mailhost.sclp.com (postfix@66-209.196.61.interliant.com [209.196.61.66] (may be forged)) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24896 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 22:19:40 -0600 (CST) Original-Received: from myway.myway.de (unknown [212.204.66.1]) by mailhost.sclp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B442D049A for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2000 23:20:01 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from tux.gnu.franken.de (postfix@dialin4160.nefkom.de [212.114.164.160]) by myway.myway.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03543; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 05:19:54 +0100 Original-Received: by tux.gnu.franken.de (Postfix, from userid 270) id 04B0BDB16E; Thu, 30 Nov 2000 05:19:44 +0100 (CET) Original-To: Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai =?iso-8859-1?q?Gro=dfjohann?=) In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.0.91 Original-Lines: 63 Precedence: list X-Majordomo: 1.94.jlt7 Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:33520 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:33520 Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Gro=dfjohann) writes: > Are you saying that under your interpretation there is no way in > Unicode to display left and right single quotes? No. Unicode has left and right single quotes. > IMVHO, such an interpretation is silly, since the English speaking > people have been using left and right single (or double) quotes for > ages to mark direct speach and the like. I guess you're talking about computer usage ;) In previous times, there was a typewriter offering apostrophe (w/o direction) and accents only. Then people started to misuse the grave accent as left single quote. > Removing these characters from Ascii or Latin-1 > (or Unicode) means that it is not possible to express normal English > text using that encoding. That's a silly conclusion ;) There's no left double quote neither... > FWIW, TeX also uses `single quotes' like this. By saying this, I mean > that when you provide TeX with an input that has `single quotes', then > the output will contain a single left and a single right quote. Please, just read Markus Kuhn's article. He quotes Donald E. Knuth: Donald Knuth's TeXbook (chapter 2, page 3, end of second paragraph) has actually warned TeX users already since 1986 that the apostrophe and grave accent shapes can show up as required by ISO and Unicode and not as used in the rest of the TeXbook. Of course, Knuth doesn't mention ISO and Unicode but mentions the problem in general. > I think it is not useful to make fonts such that TeX input looks > asymmetrical, We'll have to learn to live with this hassle. > nor such that Emacs Lisp code looks asymmetrical. Emacs code isn't affected; only quoted strings inside comments. According to Markus only m4 is affected -- he recommends to make use of 'changequote'. > And I don't believe that shell code looks silly with left and right > quotes at all, It does. And: using ETL fonts it's hard to distinguish both. Proper back ticks (grave accent) are much better to recognize. Recent X fonts are already changed. Please, don't forget to read (it isn't that long): http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ucs/quotes.html --=20 work : ke@suse.de | ,__o : http://www.suse.de/~ke/ | _-\_<, home : keichwa@gmx.net | (*)/'(*)