Re: Spam splitting and multiple nnimap methods

[Timothy Brown <tim@tux.org>]

On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 03:11:49PM -0400, Ted Zlatanov wrote:

[snip]


> I actually meant to write cross-server splitting, which would allow
> "nnimap+server.com:externalgroup" but I keep forgetting about it.
> No one seems to be clamoring for it, so I guess it's not that
> important.

Clamor! Clamor! That would be good stuff.  You know, the reason I moved
to Gnus is it really handled multiple mailboxes and IMAP servers "well",
and it was the only client to do so and have everything displayed in a
way that made sense, other than Thunderbird which doesn't work for me
due to my reliance on text-based terminals, etc.  Cross-server splitting
would, for instance, allow me to treat all messages universally as part
of a single server, thus creating a kind of "IMAP proxy" setup.  But perhaps
kibozed groups offer me the same functionality(?) - haven't looked into
this.

> > Many times my messages will say they are being "IMAP split
> > host:INBOX:xx to INBOX" but Gnus never sees them as part of that
> > mailbox.  They aren't being lost, exactly, but they do exist.
> 
> I have no idea what you mean here, sorry.

What I meant to say was, Gnus is processing messages through the split,
leaving them where they are because INBOX is the default mailbox in
nnmail-split-fancy, but they are not showing up in Gnus yet are showing
up in, for instance, mutt when I point it at the mail server.  You talk
more about this below (and I reply...)

> > This is one area where Gnus' flexibility is giving me a huge
> > headache - the manual just isn't clear enough.
> 
> This is my fault, since I wrote most of the spam support
> documentation.  I've had help from several volunteers with the
> manual; if you would like to help as well that would be great.

I didn't mean to point fingers, but the information you've provided here
has really helped to clarify the process.  (But see below...)

> >> I've added (: spam-split) to my split rules.
> > 
> > My own split rules are pretty simple - essentially split from "INBOX"
> > (which nnimap box is it splitting from?  From all of them?), run
> > : spam-split, (see question above), and then return messages not split
> > to "INBOX" (again, is this on the server i'm currently checking)?
> 
> You should not split back into INBOX.  It's been done, but it's
> unnecessary.  Make your last split group "mail" for example and
> you'll be happier.

The behavior I really want is:

  1) Go through INBOX, detect whether mail is bogo-spammed or in a blacklist.
    a) Move this mail to the spam folder.

  2) Read the INBOX, and manually mark what bogofilter didn't clue in on as
     spam.

  3) Leave INBOX, and have the remaining mail that's there trained as ham.

You mention that I shouldn't split back into INBOX; can you explain why this
is unnecessary and/or bad?  I'm trying to figure out why it makes sense
to have to have a different folder as my INBOX (although i'm not against
the idea, i'd like to leave INBOX to its intended purpose and expire mail
into INBOX.mail later)

> Each IMAP server with a nnimap server entry in your Gnus setup can
> have its own split rules.  This is my setup, for instance:
> 
> (setq nnimap-split-rule '(
> 		     ("lifelogs" ("INBOX" nnimap-split-fancy))
> 		     ("imap" ("INBOX" nnimap-courier-split-fancy))))
> 
> as opposed to the simpler but less useful:
> 
> (setq nnimap-split-rule 'nnimap-split-fancy)

This sheds a ton of light on how nnimap can fancy split using individual
servers, thanks.  In these rulesets, you're only specifying folder names
and not fully qualified nn<backend>+etc. stuff, right?  This really needs
to go into the fancy splitting section or the IMAP section of the manual.

> I use nnimap-courier-split-fancy as a wrapper around
> nnimap-split-fancy to prepend "INBOX." to the group names, because
> of Courier IMAP's particular group name prefix, but that's not
> important.  What's important is that you can specify split rules
> for each server, instead of one rule for them all.
> 
> >> Now comes the second part; tell spam.el which groups contains spam and
> >> which don't. That is done with group parameters.
> > 
> > This part i'm sort of kind of -- well, totally lost on.
> 

[snip]

I follow all this.  What isn't clear is what the 'Spam Autodetection'
feature is used for, and/or if it needs to be enabled (in G c), etc.

This has all been really helpful.  To summarize and make this as clear
as possible:

  - I want to scan for spam in every IMAP mailbox I have.

  - If mail appears as spam based on what bogofilter and/or the blackholes
    rule knows, then dump it in a spam folder that is individual to that
    IMAP server.  Later SpamAssassin (via spamc) will be added to the
    mix.

  - I'll also scan through this folder after it's done, read the mail I want
    to read, mark certain things as spam, and treat everything else as ham.

  - Spam and ham will be processed on group exit.

  - It would be great if that folder was 'INBOX', but I understand if it has
    to be 'mail'.

  - I don't care about other folders at the moment.

My only real concerns at this point about the above are the weirdness i've seen
with splitting back to INBOX and never seeing the messages in Gnus, but I'll
bet that is a small problem.

Thanks again for all your help.  I think i'm almost there.

Tim