Releases

Releases

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

What kind of release thing should we be doing these days?  Should
there be a new Gnus 5.8?  I could just check out the last 5.8 before
we went to o0-1 and release that, but, er, would that be a thing to
do?  And there was some talk about not doing any alpha releases any
more, but just keep that in cvs...

Ideas?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Releases

[ShengHuo ZHU]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> What kind of release thing should we be doing these days?  Should
> there be a new Gnus 5.8? 

Some new features, such as SMIME stuff, are not in Gnus 5.9. To avoid
confusing, they should not go into Gnus 5.8. I've made a tag named
V5-8.  All codes at that point have been synchronized with Emacs 21, I
guess.

> I could just check out the last 5.8 before we went to o0-1 and
> release that, but, er, would that be a thing to do?  And there was
> some talk about not doing any alpha releases any more, but just keep
> that in cvs...

I guess some people prefer released versions.

ShengHuo

Re: Releases

[Kai Großjohann]

On 30 Dec 2000, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> What kind of release thing should we be doing these days?  Should
> there be a new Gnus 5.8?  I could just check out the last 5.8 before
> we went to o0-1 and release that, but, er, would that be a thing to
> do?

What do you think about releasing a 5.8.8 which is as similar as
possible to 5.9?  This way people without Emacs 21 can get the most
recent `stable' Gnus.

But you could leave in everything which was removed from 5.9, I
guess.  Hm.  Maybe this would be an approach:

Create a patch of the differences between 5.8.7 and 5.9 and delete
from this patch everything which deletes features, such as the s/mime
stuff and so on.  Then, apply this patch to 5.8.7, giving 5.8.8.

What do you think about this?

Another thought is: right now, it seems that people haven't really
added features to ognus like crazy.  So maybe the current ognus looks
more like a bugfix release of 5.8?  So one idea would be to rechristen
ognus as 5.8 and release that as 5.8.8.  But that would mean a lot of
fiddling with the release/branch structure.  Hm.

Yet another thought: go to the head of the 5.8 branch in CVS (I'm sure
there is such a branch, isn't there?), and merge ognus changes in
there.  This would be kinda like the previous paragraph, only without
the fiddling in the release/branch structure.

Yet ANOTHER thought: release 5.8.7 again, only this time with
mail-source-delete-incoming set to the right value :-)  Are there
serious bugs in 5.8.7?  I vaguely remember that I have told people to
fetch a 5.8.8 snapshot quite a number of times, but I don't remember
the details.  Gack.  I wish I did.  But there must have been a reason
for me to do so.  Hm.

> And there was some talk about not doing any alpha releases any more,
> but just keep that in cvs...

Hm.  That's an idea.  Hm.  I think it would be nice to keep the
snapshots, though.  Maybe there are people out there for whom CVS is a
real hassle but who would still like access to the development
sources.  Maybe if you keep a week's worth of daily snapshots?

kai
-- 
~/.signature

Re: Releases

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

> Some new features, such as SMIME stuff, are not in Gnus 5.9. To avoid
> confusing, they should not go into Gnus 5.8. I've made a tag named
> V5-8.  All codes at that point have been synchronized with Emacs 21, I
> guess.

I'm not a very advanced cvs user -- is V5-8 a branch, or is it just a
tag?  If I check out V5-8 and release that as Gnus 5.8.8 (and just
call that the final Gnus 5.8 release), would that be ok?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Releases

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:

> Create a patch of the differences between 5.8.7 and 5.9 and delete
> from this patch everything which deletes features, such as the s/mime
> stuff and so on.  Then, apply this patch to 5.8.7, giving 5.8.8.
> 
> What do you think about this?

Oy vey.  Sounds like work.   :-)

> Another thought is: right now, it seems that people haven't really
> added features to ognus like crazy.  So maybe the current ognus looks
> more like a bugfix release of 5.8?  So one idea would be to rechristen
> ognus as 5.8 and release that as 5.8.8.  But that would mean a lot of
> fiddling with the release/branch structure.  Hm.

Well, there's lots of GPG (and stuff) in ognus now, which probably
counts as new features...  

> Yet ANOTHER thought: release 5.8.7 again, only this time with
> mail-source-delete-incoming set to the right value :-)

That's definitely an idea.  :-)

> Are there serious bugs in 5.8.7?  I vaguely remember that I have
> told people to fetch a 5.8.8 snapshot quite a number of times, but I
> don't remember the details.  Gack.  I wish I did.  But there must
> have been a reason for me to do so.  Hm.

There were lotsa problems with 5.8.6, but (so far in my reading of
gnu.emacs.gnus), there doesn't seem to be any major problems with
5.8.7 (except `mail-source-delete-incoming').

> > And there was some talk about not doing any alpha releases any more,
> > but just keep that in cvs...
> 
> Hm.  That's an idea.  Hm.  I think it would be nice to keep the
> snapshots, though.  Maybe there are people out there for whom CVS is a
> real hassle but who would still like access to the development
> sources.  Maybe if you keep a week's worth of daily snapshots?

One reason for not doing alpha releases is that (as we saw during
Pterodactyl), more people used the alpha releases than probably should 
have.  I mean, they're supposed to be very unstable.

One reason for doing alpha releases is that it's very nice to have
names for development.  One can easily say "This problem cropped up
when I upgraded from ognus-0.45 for ognus-0.49", while it's a bit more 
difficult saying "I had a cvs version, and then I did "cvs up" a
couple of days ago, and this problem cropped up"...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Releases

[Randal L. Schwartz]

>>>>> "ZSH" == ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

ZSH> I guess some people prefer released versions.

I've been watching for quite a while for a "release".

I'm not about to download a "snapshot of the hour".  I want someone to
say "I've tried all this, and it at least compiles".

Will there be a new "release" any time soon?  I'm still on 5.8.7.

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
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Re: Releases

[Randal L. Schwartz]

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>>>>> "Kai" == Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes:

Kai> Are there
Kai> serious bugs in 5.8.7?  I vaguely remember that I have told people to
Kai> fetch a 5.8.8 snapshot quite a number of times, but I don't remember
Kai> the details.  Gack.  I wish I did.  But there must have been a reason
Kai> for me to do so.  Hm.

It's not a show-stopper, but 5.8.7 gets "sorting newsgroups"
backwards.  I always have to remember to sort "in reverse" to get them
forward, and when coming out of a newsgroup that is completely read,
it sometimes goes up, and not down.

In other words, the display as it puts them in my *Groups* list is
backwards from the order they are in .newsrc.  This behaviour started
with 5.8.0.  I reported it once, but the bug report must have been
tagged "it's coming from that famous felon guy... maybe it's not
important". :)

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
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Re: Releases

[ShengHuo ZHU]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE (Kai Großjohann) writes:
> 
> > Create a patch of the differences between 5.8.7 and 5.9 and delete
> > from this patch everything which deletes features, such as the s/mime
> > stuff and so on.  Then, apply this patch to 5.8.7, giving 5.8.8.
> > 
> > What do you think about this?
> 
> Oy vey.  Sounds like work.   :-)

This may not work.  Actually, the code in Emacs 21 CVS, namely 5.9,
may break in Emacs 20 or XEmacs.  Without testing, I don't think it
should be released.  BTW, the S/MIME stuff is not in 5.9.

> > Another thought is: right now, it seems that people haven't really
> > added features to ognus like crazy.  So maybe the current ognus looks
> > more like a bugfix release of 5.8?  So one idea would be to rechristen
> > ognus as 5.8 and release that as 5.8.8.  But that would mean a lot of
> > fiddling with the release/branch structure.  Hm.
> 
> Well, there's lots of GPG (and stuff) in ognus now, which probably
> counts as new features...  

New features for 5.8.8?  It will confuse people that the new features
in 5.8.8 disappear in 5.9.

> > Yet ANOTHER thought: release 5.8.7 again, only this time with
> > mail-source-delete-incoming set to the right value :-)
> 
> That's definitely an idea.  :-)
> 
> > Are there serious bugs in 5.8.7?  I vaguely remember that I have
> > told people to fetch a 5.8.8 snapshot quite a number of times, but I
> > don't remember the details.  

> > Gack.  I wish I did.  But there must have been a reason for me to
> > do so.  Hm.
> 
> There were lotsa problems with 5.8.6, but (so far in my reading of
> gnu.emacs.gnus), there doesn't seem to be any major problems with
> 5.8.7 (except `mail-source-delete-incoming').

Another bug is in nnslashdot, which was fixed in early July.

> > > And there was some talk about not doing any alpha releases any more,
> > > but just keep that in cvs...
> > 
> > Hm.  That's an idea.  Hm.  I think it would be nice to keep the
> > snapshots, though.  Maybe there are people out there for whom CVS is a
> > real hassle but who would still like access to the development
> > sources.  Maybe if you keep a week's worth of daily snapshots?
> 
> One reason for not doing alpha releases is that (as we saw during
> Pterodactyl), more people used the alpha releases than probably should 
> have.  I mean, they're supposed to be very unstable.
> 
> One reason for doing alpha releases is that it's very nice to have
> names for development.  One can easily say "This problem cropped up
> when I upgraded from ognus-0.45 for ognus-0.49", while it's a bit more 
> difficult saying "I had a cvs version, and then I did "cvs up" a
> couple of days ago, and this problem cropped up"...

What about doing a few relatively stable releases instead of doing
every alpha releases.

ShengHuo

Re: Releases

[ShengHuo ZHU]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:
> 
> > Some new features, such as SMIME stuff, are not in Gnus 5.9. To avoid
> > confusing, they should not go into Gnus 5.8. I've made a tag named
> > V5-8.  All codes at that point have been synchronized with Emacs 21, I
> > guess.
> 
> I'm not a very advanced cvs user -- is V5-8 a branch, or is it just a
> tag?  If I check out V5-8 and release that as Gnus 5.8.8 (and just
> call that the final Gnus 5.8 release), would that be ok?

V5-8 is a branch.  I think it is OK to release that as Gnus 5.8.8. If
you want a more stable one, I can merge a few bug fixes into the
branch next week (I can't do it right now, 'cause I am away from
home).

ShengHuo

Re: Releases

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

> V5-8 is a branch.  I think it is OK to release that as Gnus 5.8.8. If
> you want a more stable one, I can merge a few bug fixes into the
> branch next week (I can't do it right now, 'cause I am away from
> home).

Okidoke; you give me the go-ahead and I'll do a Gnus 5.8.8 release. 

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Releases

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

> > Well, there's lots of GPG (and stuff) in ognus now, which probably
> > counts as new features...  
> 
> New features for 5.8.8?  It will confuse people that the new features
> in 5.8.8 disappear in 5.9.

Yup.

> What about doing a few relatively stable releases instead of doing
> every alpha releases.

I'm kinda leaning towards doing it this way for Oort, but the problem
is choosing the exact right moment for when Oort is stable.  :-)  I
think it's probably the way to go, though.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Releases

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:

> I'm not about to download a "snapshot of the hour".  I want someone to
> say "I've tried all this, and it at least compiles".

Yeah.  I certainly never download anything that says "snapshot" when
downloading packages from the net.  

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Releases

[ShengHuo ZHU]

merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:

> >>>>> "Kai" == Kai Großjohann <Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE> writes:
> 
> Kai> Are there
> Kai> serious bugs in 5.8.7?  I vaguely remember that I have told people to
> Kai> fetch a 5.8.8 snapshot quite a number of times, but I don't remember
> Kai> the details.  Gack.  I wish I did.  But there must have been a reason
> Kai> for me to do so.  Hm.
> 
> It's not a show-stopper, but 5.8.7 gets "sorting newsgroups"
> backwards.  I always have to remember to sort "in reverse" to get them
> forward, and when coming out of a newsgroup that is completely read,
> it sometimes goes up, and not down.

I've tried to reproduce this bug in Emacs 20.7, 21.0 and XEmacs 21.2.
But Gnus always sorts newsgroups in the right order.  Therefore, I am
unable to fix the bug.  My wild guess is that Emacs 20.3 is buggy when
sorting.

ShengHuo

Re: Releases

[Anders Odberg]

[ShengHuo ZHU]

||   It's not a show-stopper, but 5.8.7 gets "sorting newsgroups"
||   backwards.  I always have to remember to sort "in reverse" to get them
||   forward, and when coming out of a newsgroup that is completely read,
||   it sometimes goes up, and not down.
|
|   I've tried to reproduce this bug in Emacs 20.7, 21.0 and XEmacs 21.2.
|   But Gnus always sorts newsgroups in the right order.  Therefore, I am
|   unable to fix the bug.  My wild guess is that Emacs 20.3 is buggy when
|   sorting.

I'm seeing excactly the same behaviour as Randal describes, under 5.8.7 and
Xemacs-21.1.10. However, this reverse sorting only happens when
gnus-visual is set to nil (which I prefer), setting gnus-visual to e.g.
'menu gives correct sorting. Weird.

-ao.
-- 
  Anders Odberg, <odberg@usit.uio.no>
  Center for Information Technology Services
  University of Oslo, Norway

Re: Releases

[Randal L. Schwartz]

>>>>> "Anders" == Anders Odberg <anders.odberg@usit.uio.no> writes:

Anders> [ShengHuo ZHU]
Anders> ||   It's not a show-stopper, but 5.8.7 gets "sorting newsgroups"
Anders> ||   backwards.  I always have to remember to sort "in reverse" to get them
Anders> ||   forward, and when coming out of a newsgroup that is completely read,
Anders> ||   it sometimes goes up, and not down.
Anders> |
Anders> |   I've tried to reproduce this bug in Emacs 20.7, 21.0 and XEmacs 21.2.
Anders> |   But Gnus always sorts newsgroups in the right order.  Therefore, I am
Anders> |   unable to fix the bug.  My wild guess is that Emacs 20.3 is buggy when
Anders> |   sorting.

Anders> I'm seeing excactly the same behaviour as Randal describes,
Anders> under 5.8.7 and Xemacs-21.1.10. However, this reverse sorting
Anders> only happens when gnus-visual is set to nil (which I prefer),
Anders> setting gnus-visual to e.g.  'menu gives correct
Anders> sorting. Weird.

Ahh yes.  For me, gnus-visual is nil.  Didn't know that was relevant. :)

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
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Re: Releases

[Charles Sebold]

On 4 Teveth 5761, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:

> ZSH> I guess some people prefer released versions.
> 
> I've been watching for quite a while for a "release".
> 
> I'm not about to download a "snapshot of the hour".  I want someone to
> say "I've tried all this, and it at least compiles".

Speaking for the snapshots at ftp://ftp.gnus.org/pub/gnus/snapshots, let
me be the first to say "I've tried all this, and it more than compiles;
it works, usually flawlessly."  I have seen exactly one thing that could
be characterized as a bug in 5.8.8 (which has become Oort Gnus 0.01),
and ShengHuo fixed it quite promptly when I described the symptoms.  It
really does work quite well.  If you set mail-source-delete-incoming to
nil (to which it defaults) then the odds of you actually losing mail are
very low indeed, I should think.  In several months of using snapshots,
updated once a week or so, I've only had the one problem I described
above, and that was with PGP/MIME, and it didn't lose my mail, it just
broke decrypting and verifying for a while, and in the meantime Mutt got
me around that.
-- 
Charles Sebold
Random Answer to an Emacs Very Frequently Asked Question:
 BG Colors: (add-to-list 'default-frame-alist '(background-color . "green"))
--
7th of Teveth, 5761
--
A.D. 1517: Martin Luther nails his 95 Theses to the church door and is
promptly moderated down to (-1, Flamebait).
  -- Yu Suzuki, quoted on slashdot.org

Re: Releases

[ShengHuo ZHU]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:

> ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:
> 
> > V5-8 is a branch.  I think it is OK to release that as Gnus 5.8.8. If
> > you want a more stable one, I can merge a few bug fixes into the
> > branch next week (I can't do it right now, 'cause I am away from
> > home).
> 
> Okidoke; you give me the go-ahead and I'll do a Gnus 5.8.8 release. 

Now it is ready.

ShengHuo

Re: Releases

[ShengHuo ZHU]

merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:

[...]

> Ahh yes.  For me, gnus-visual is nil.  Didn't know that was relevant. :)

Now I can reproduce it in Gnus 5.8.7.  Fortunately, the bug is gone
somehow in Gnus 5.8.8.

ShengHuo

Re: Releases

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

> Now it is ready.

Great!

I've now made a release (available at the usable places) of 5.8.8, but
I haven't announced it yet, because I'm not quite sure whether the new
cvs-based release script is working ok.  Could someone check it out
and see whether they get a working 5.8.8 out of it?

And I should probably rtag the release, shouldn't I?  How does one
rtag a branch?  

$ cvs rtag v5-8-8 -r V5-8 gnus

No, that can't be correct...  I do

$cvs co -r V5-8

so I should perhaps just do

cvs rtag v5-8-8 gnus

in the checked-out directory?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Releases

[Karl Kleinpaste]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes:
> I've now made a release (available at the usable places) of 5.8.8, but

Was -delete-incoming set to t this time?

Re: Releases

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Karl Kleinpaste <karl@charcoal.com> writes:

> > I've now made a release (available at the usable places) of 5.8.8, but
> 
> Was -delete-incoming set to t this time?

I think so...  

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Releases

[Stainless Steel Rat]

* Karl Kleinpaste <karl@charcoal.com>  on Thu, 04 Jan 2001
| Was -delete-incoming set to t this time?

,-----
| (defcustom mail-source-delete-incoming t
|   "*If non-nil, delete incoming files after handling."
|   :group 'mail-source
|   :type 'boolean)
`-----

Looks like it is.
-- 
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ 
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ 

Re: Releases

[Randal L. Schwartz]

>>>>> "ZSH" == ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

ZSH> merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz) writes:
ZSH> [...]

>> Ahh yes.  For me, gnus-visual is nil.  Didn't know that was relevant. :)

ZSH> Now I can reproduce it in Gnus 5.8.7.  Fortunately, the bug is gone
ZSH> somehow in Gnus 5.8.8.

Yeah!  5.8.8 cured it!  My first invocation had my *Group* "upside down",
but a normal ^C^S cured it!  Yeah!  Thank you thank you thank you.

Now to figure out what other differences there are.  Is diffing gnus.texi
and message.texi sufficient?

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
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