Re: nnml-open-marks bug?

Re: nnml-open-marks bug?

[Alex Schroeder]

Alex Schroeder <kensanata@yahoo.com> writes:

> In recent CVS, nnml-open-marks in nnml.el uses
> gnus-article-unpropagated-mark-lists which is undefined on my system.
> This gets caught and therefore I get the question: 
>
>     Error reading nnml marks file %s (%s).  Continuing will use marks
>     from .newsrc.eld.  Continue?

Hm, the error seems to be this:  I used to require gnus-msg.  This no
longer works.

(when (not (featurep 'xemacs))
  (require 'gnus-msg)
  (load-file "~/.gnus"))

All I need to do is require 'gnus instead.

What I *wanted* to do is prevent Gnus from being loaded unless I
actually want to read news or write mail.  Is there another solution
around?  If not, no problem.  After all, the less I restart Emacs the
better.

Alex.
-- 
http://www.geocities.com/kensanata/
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death and sweet as love.
	-- Turkish proverb

Re: nnml-open-marks bug?

[Simon Josefsson]

Alex Schroeder <kensanata@yahoo.com> writes:

> Alex Schroeder <kensanata@yahoo.com> writes:
>
>> In recent CVS, nnml-open-marks in nnml.el uses
>> gnus-article-unpropagated-mark-lists which is undefined on my system.
>> This gets caught and therefore I get the question: 
>>
>>     Error reading nnml marks file %s (%s).  Continuing will use marks
>>     from .newsrc.eld.  Continue?

This should be fixed in CVS, thanks.  (I don't remember this post to
the ding list though?  Can't find it in the archives either.)

> Hm, the error seems to be this: I used to require gnus-msg.  This no
> longer works.
>
> (when (not (featurep 'xemacs))
>   (require 'gnus-msg)
>   (load-file "~/.gnus"))
>
> All I need to do is require 'gnus instead.
>
> What I *wanted* to do is prevent Gnus from being loaded unless I
> actually want to read news or write mail.  Is there another solution
> around?  If not, no problem.  After all, the less I restart Emacs the
> better.

If you don't want to read news or write mail, Gnus shouldn't be
loaded, I think.  What is loading it?

Re: nnml-open-marks bug?

[Alex Schroeder]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> This should be fixed in CVS, thanks.  (I don't remember this post to
> the ding list though?  Can't find it in the archives either.)

Hm, I just switched distros and ran into a bit of exim-related
problems... :)

>> Hm, the error seems to be this: I used to require gnus-msg.  This no
>> longer works.
>>
>> (when (not (featurep 'xemacs))
>>   (require 'gnus-msg)
>>   (load-file "~/.gnus"))
>>
>> All I need to do is require 'gnus instead.
>>
>> What I *wanted* to do is prevent Gnus from being loaded unless I
>> actually want to read news or write mail.  Is there another solution
>> around?  If not, no problem.  After all, the less I restart Emacs the
>> better.
>
> If you don't want to read news or write mail, Gnus shouldn't be
> loaded, I think.  What is loading it?

Sorry, my mistake.  When I hit C-x m I want to use message mode and
posting styles (at least I think it was the posting styles that
required a bit of Gnus loaded).  That's why I required 'gnus-msg in my
.emacs.  Using M-x gnus, M-x gnus-no-server etc. was never a problem.

Recently, though, M-x gnus would no longer work.  Only when I changed
my require 'gnus-msg into a require 'gnus was I again able to use M-x
gnus, M-x gnus-no-server etc. without a problem.

Alex.
-- 
http://www.emacswiki.org/

Re: nnml-open-marks bug?

[Simon Josefsson]

Alex Schroeder <alex@gnu.org> writes:

>>> Hm, the error seems to be this: I used to require gnus-msg.  This no
>>> longer works.
>>>
>>> (when (not (featurep 'xemacs))
>>>   (require 'gnus-msg)
>>>   (load-file "~/.gnus"))
>>>
>>> All I need to do is require 'gnus instead.
>>>
>>> What I *wanted* to do is prevent Gnus from being loaded unless I
>>> actually want to read news or write mail.  Is there another solution
>>> around?  If not, no problem.  After all, the less I restart Emacs the
>>> better.
>>
>> If you don't want to read news or write mail, Gnus shouldn't be
>> loaded, I think.  What is loading it?
>
> Sorry, my mistake.  When I hit C-x m I want to use message mode and
> posting styles (at least I think it was the posting styles that
> required a bit of Gnus loaded).  That's why I required 'gnus-msg in my
> .emacs.  Using M-x gnus, M-x gnus-no-server etc. was never a problem.

Please remove the require and report the backtrace you get, I think
the proper autoloads etc should be installed so that C-x m with Gnus
works by default, including stuff like posting styles.

> Recently, though, M-x gnus would no longer work.  Only when I changed
> my require 'gnus-msg into a require 'gnus was I again able to use M-x
> gnus, M-x gnus-no-server etc. without a problem.

That is probably also a bug that should be solved, what is the
backtrace you get if you don't put the workaround in your .emacs?

Re: nnml-open-marks bug?

[ShengHuo ZHU]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:


[...]

>> Sorry, my mistake.  When I hit C-x m I want to use message mode and
>> posting styles (at least I think it was the posting styles that
>> required a bit of Gnus loaded).  That's why I required 'gnus-msg in my
>> .emacs.  Using M-x gnus, M-x gnus-no-server etc. was never a problem.
>
> Please remove the require and report the backtrace you get, I think
> the proper autoloads etc should be installed so that C-x m with Gnus
> works by default, including stuff like posting styles.

Actually, (require 'gnus-load) is what should be put into .emacs if
using Emacs 20 or some versions of XEmacs.  Anyway, it is just an
auto-generated file of autoload variables and functions.

ShengHuo

Re: nnml-open-marks bug?

[Simon Josefsson]

ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

>>> Sorry, my mistake.  When I hit C-x m I want to use message mode and
>>> posting styles (at least I think it was the posting styles that
>>> required a bit of Gnus loaded).  That's why I required 'gnus-msg in my
>>> .emacs.  Using M-x gnus, M-x gnus-no-server etc. was never a problem.
>>
>> Please remove the require and report the backtrace you get, I think
>> the proper autoloads etc should be installed so that C-x m with Gnus
>> works by default, including stuff like posting styles.
> 
> Actually, (require 'gnus-load) is what should be put into .emacs if
> using Emacs 20 or some versions of XEmacs.  Anyway, it is just an
> auto-generated file of autoload variables and functions.

Oh, I see.  Maybe the XEmacs package could auto-load that?

Sorry, I didn't realize Alex was using Emacs 20 (and that things were
different as well).

Re: nnml-open-marks bug?

[Alex Schroeder]

ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

> Actually, (require 'gnus-load) is what should be put into .emacs if
> using Emacs 20 or some versions of XEmacs.  Anyway, it is just an
> auto-generated file of autoload variables and functions.

Ok, thanks.  I'll try that and see how it goes.

Alex.
-- 
http://www.emacswiki.org/

Re: nnml-open-marks bug?

[Alex Schroeder]

Alex Schroeder <alex@gnu.org> writes:

> ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:
>
>> Actually, (require 'gnus-load) is what should be put into .emacs if
>> using Emacs 20 or some versions of XEmacs.  Anyway, it is just an
>> auto-generated file of autoload variables and functions.
>
> Ok, thanks.  I'll try that and see how it goes.

Unfortunately it is not enough.  Let's see if I manage to solve this
riddle, hehe.  I agree with Simon that Gnus should just do the right
thing -- so what happens here is not a serious bug, it's just not what
I expected to be the right thing.

My .emacs now does this:

(when (not (featurep 'xemacs))
  (require 'gnus-load))

A quick test:

mail-user-agent's value is 
gnus-user-agent

When I start Emacs and hit C-x m I get a message-mode buffer called
*mail*.  It has the following header lines and no body:

 To: 
 Subject: 

My posting-styles defined in .gnus, however, demand something else:

(setq gnus-posting-styles
      '((".*"
	 ("Fcc" "~/SMAIL")
	 (signature "http://www.geocities.com/kensanata/\nCoffee should be black as hell, strong as death and sweet as love.\n\t-- Turkish proverb"))
...

When I restart Emacs and run M-x gnus-no-server and *then* hit C-x m,
I get the following mail headers and body:

 To: 
 Subject: 
 Fcc: ~/SMAIL
 --text follows this line--

 -- 
 http://www.geocities.com/kensanata/
 Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death and sweet as love.
         -- Turkish proverb


This is what I want.

What is the correct way to tell Gnus, then?  Should I define my
posting styles in .emacs instead of .gnus?  (I haven't tried.)

Alex.
-- 
http://www.geocities.com/kensanata/
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death and sweet as love.
	-- Turkish proverb

Re: nnml-open-marks bug?

[ShengHuo ZHU]

Alex Schroeder <alex@reality.emacswiki.org> writes:

[...]

> When I start Emacs and hit C-x m I get a message-mode buffer called
> *mail*.  It has the following header lines and no body:
>
>  To: 
>  Subject: 
>
> My posting-styles defined in .gnus, however, demand something else:
>
> (setq gnus-posting-styles
>       '((".*"
> 	 ("Fcc" "~/SMAIL")
> 	 (signature "http://www.geocities.com/kensanata/\nCoffee should be black as hell, strong as death and sweet as love.\n\t-- Turkish proverb"))
> ...
>
> When I restart Emacs and run M-x gnus-no-server and *then* hit C-x m,
> I get the following mail headers and body:

If you don't start Gnus, ~/.gnus is not loaded. If you want the styles
without starting Gnus, put gnus-posting-styles in ~/.emacs.

ShengHuo

Re: nnml-open-marks bug?

[Alex Schroeder]

ShengHuo ZHU <zsh@cs.rochester.edu> writes:

> If you don't start Gnus, ~/.gnus is not loaded. If you want the styles
> without starting Gnus, put gnus-posting-styles in ~/.emacs.

Ok, since I want all the Gnus related stuff to be in .gnus, I will
just load .gnus (12k) from .emacs (62k).

That worked.  Thanks.

Alex.
-- 
http://www.emacswiki.org/

Re: nnml-open-marks bug?

[Alex Schroeder]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> If you don't want to read news or write mail, Gnus shouldn't be
> loaded, I think.  What is loading it?

Hm, another problem remains.  I run Gnus from CVS only in Emacs, not
in XEmacs.  That's why I have the following in my .emacs:

(when (not (featurep 'xemacs))
  (require 'gnus)
  (load-file "~/.gnus"))

Somehow this is not enough, because M-x report-emacs-bug no longer
works.

Signaling: (void-function nil)
  nil("bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" "test" nil nil nil nil nil)
  compose-mail("bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" "test")
  report-emacs-bug("test" [...])

compose-mail calls the value of mail-user-agent.

  mail-user-agent's value is 
  gnus-user-agent

But that is undefined.

  No apropos matches for `gnus-user-agent'

What I really need to know is what must I load in my .emacs such that
all of Gnus is available?  And once I have some alternatives, which
one is the one that takes the least time while starting up?

Hm.  When I get a new version of CVS, I usually just do a "make" and
no make-install.  Could that be a problem?  I don't think so.

Alex.
-- 
http://www.emacswiki.org/

Re: nnml-open-marks bug?

[Simon Josefsson]

Alex Schroeder <alex@gnu.org> writes:

> Hm, another problem remains.  I run Gnus from CVS only in Emacs, not
> in XEmacs.  That's why I have the following in my .emacs:
>
> (when (not (featurep 'xemacs))
>   (require 'gnus)
>   (load-file "~/.gnus"))
>
> Somehow this is not enough, because M-x report-emacs-bug no longer
> works.
>
> Signaling: (void-function nil)
>   nil("bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" "test" nil nil nil nil nil)
>   compose-mail("bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" "test")
>   report-emacs-bug("test" [...])
>
> compose-mail calls the value of mail-user-agent.
>
>   mail-user-agent's value is 
>   gnus-user-agent
>
> But that is undefined.

This would be a Emacs bug.  But I can't reproduce it:

$ emacs -q
(setq mail-user-agent 'gnus-user-agent)
C-x m

starts up Message, MML etc from Gnus properly.

I believe something similar was found in XEmacs very recently, btw.

> What I really need to know is what must I load in my .emacs such that
> all of Gnus is available?

Nothing.  These are bugs.  I don't load anything in .emacs, and things
seem to work.

Re: nnml-open-marks bug?

[ShengHuo ZHU]

Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes:

> Alex Schroeder <alex@gnu.org> writes:
>
>> Hm, another problem remains.  I run Gnus from CVS only in Emacs, not
>> in XEmacs.  That's why I have the following in my .emacs:
>>
>> (when (not (featurep 'xemacs))
>>   (require 'gnus)
>>   (load-file "~/.gnus"))
>>
>> Somehow this is not enough, because M-x report-emacs-bug no longer
>> works.
>>
>> Signaling: (void-function nil)
>>   nil("bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" "test" nil nil nil nil nil)
>>   compose-mail("bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" "test")
>>   report-emacs-bug("test" [...])
>>
>> compose-mail calls the value of mail-user-agent.
>>
>>   mail-user-agent's value is 
>>   gnus-user-agent
>>
>> But that is undefined.
>
> This would be a Emacs bug.  But I can't reproduce it:

It is not an Emacs bug.  Alex use Emacs 20.7, where gnus-user-agent is
not defined. But you use Emacs 21.

To make it run in Emacs 20.7, users should put the following lines in
.emacs. The following lines are generated and put into gnus-load.el of
Oort Gnus.

(define-mail-user-agent (quote gnus-user-agent) (quote gnus-msg-mail)
 (quote message-send-and-exit) (quote message-kill-buffer) (quote
 message-send-hook))

ShengHuo