Emacs 20.4 & Pterodactyl

Emacs 20.4 & Pterodactyl

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

I just remembered that I had forgotten to install Emacs 20.4, so now I
have done so.  Everything seems to work OK, except for some annoying
glitches when reading messages.  It's as if there's a forced redisplay
of the entire frame when I press `N' or the like.  It's like -- I see
the old article; the whole frame flashes to white (which is my
background color); and then the new article is displayed.

Does anybody else see this?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

Re: Emacs 20.4 & Pterodactyl

[Nicolas Chuche]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> a écrit:

> Does anybody else see this?

Nop (with pgnus-0.95).

And i've got a question : what is the gnus 5.7 with emacs 20.4 ? I
have not found it on the mirrors and it seems to be different off all
the versions i've got.

Huho, it seems that i've got work for my gnus.el work with pgnus :(

Re: Emacs 20.4 & Pterodactyl

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Nicolas Chuche <nchuche@teaser.fr> writes:

> And i've got a question : what is the gnus 5.7 with emacs 20.4 ?

It's the last Gnus 5.6 minus the XEmacs stuff.  Kinda.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen

What's Gnus 5.7? (was: Re: Emacs 20.4 & Pterodactyl)

[Kai Großjohann]

Nicolas Chuche <nchuche@teaser.fr> writes:

> And i've got a question : what is the gnus 5.7 with emacs 20.4 ?

It is the Gnus distributed with Emacs 20.4.  Gnus 5.7 is almost
identical to the last Gnus 5.6 release, but I think some things from
Gnus cannot be included in Emacs, due to copyright stuff.

nndb.el comes to mind.  But nobody is actually using that, right?  (Is
the nndb project still alive?  I have switched to an IMAP server...)

kai
-- 
I like BOTH kinds of music.

Re: Emacs 20.4 & Pterodactyl

[Nicolas Chuche]

Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> a écrit:

> > And i've got a question : what is the gnus 5.7 with emacs 20.4 ?
> 
> It's the last Gnus 5.6 minus the XEmacs stuff.  Kinda.

And who's the $*ùù*$^ who give this version number ? I've search for 2
days what is this 5.7...

Re: Emacs 20.4 & Pterodactyl & pop3.el

[Stainless Steel Rat]

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By the way, I learned the hard way that pop3.el as currently distributed
with pGnus does not work with FSF Emacs 20.4.  RMS (or someone) made some
major changes to password reading in general, and ange-ftp and pop3.el in
particular, AND NEVER BOTHERED TO INFORM ME OF THESE CHANGES.

Since RMS (or whomever) does not feel that I am good enough to keep me in
the loop, I am taking myself out.  I do not maintain pop3.el any more.
Please send your bug reports to RMS.
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-- 
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.

Re: Emacs 20.4 & Pterodactyl & pop3.el

[Jan Vroonhof]

Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> writes:

> Since RMS (or whomever) does not feel that I am good enough to keep me in
> the loop, I am taking myself out.  I do not maintain pop3.el any more.
> Please send your bug reports to RMS.

Please remember that you have "other customers" using Emacs versions
_not_ maintained by RMS.

Jan

Re: Emacs 20.4 & Pterodactyl & pop3.el

[Stainless Steel Rat]

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* Jan Vroonhof <vroonhof@math.ethz.ch>  on Sat, 28 Aug 1999
| Please remember that you have "other customers" using Emacs versions
| _not_ maintained by RMS.

XEmacs 21 does not break the stock pop3 (it uses efs in that situation).
So for now there is nothing to worry about.

But on the other hand, the XEmacs developers did the same thing, just on a
much larger scale.  Compare my code with the pop3 in XEmacs 21 and you will
see very, very significant differences.  The XEmacs develpers never
informed me of these changes, either, nor have they honored my request that
they change the name so as to avoid confusion.

Both sides have told me to take a hike by telling me nothing, so I'm like,
"fuck 'em both".  It really is not worth my time and energy to fight over
it.
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-- 
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Ingredients of Happy Fun Ball include an
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ unknown glowing substance which fell to
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ Earth, presumably from outer space.

Re: Emacs 20.4 & Pterodactyl & pop3.el

[Jan Vroonhof]

Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net> writes:

> But on the other hand, the XEmacs developers did the same thing, just on a
> much larger scale.  Compare my code with the pop3 in XEmacs 21 and you will
> see very, very significant differences.  The XEmacs develpers never
> informed me of these changes, either, nor have they honored my request that
> they change the name so as to avoid confusion.

This is indeed very bad :-( and is in fact very much against "XEmacs
policy". I can only apologize. It seems to be working in other cases
(for instance for EFS, ediff and reftex we forward the patches to the
respective maintainers, they release a new version and then _that_
gets out in the respective XEmacs package).
One of the reasons for having such a policy is that is extremely hard
to get out of such a mess.

Changing name is unfortunately not always an option, especially not
for libraries that are required. Say you write an (almost) completely
compatible implementation of some elisp file, then for the user to
easily make use of is you want the interface (feature name, variable & 
function names) to be identical.

For instance I wrote lazy-shot.el, apart from the replacement of
string "lazy-lock" by "lazy-shot" it is a complete, XEmacs specific,
re-implementation of lazy-lock v2 as shipped with GNU Emacs. The only
things I copied from lazy-shot are doc strings. I tried very hard to
make the interface identical as I wanted the users customization to
work under both Emacs versions. I originally wanted to rename my
variables and functions to lazy-lock for that reason. However Simon
Marshall (the author of lazy-lock) wants me keep the names different
in order to avoid confusion. I have not done the renaming but still
don't like the situation. The problem here is that the name of
variables and function indicates both the interface and a particular
implementation.

To get back to pop3. I don't know why your weren't informed of the
initial changes, however I can see why don't see the newer ones: Andy
seems to have made the fork "official":

;; Maintainer:      Andy Piper <andy@xemacs.org>

;; Keywords: mail, pop3
;; Version: 2.04

;; [..]

;; mostly stolen from epop3mail. Please address problems with this
;; version (2.xx) to [Andy Piper].

Jan

Re: Emacs 20.4 & Pterodactyl & pop3.el

[Stainless Steel Rat]

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* Jan Vroonhof <vroonhof@math.ethz.ch>  on Sun, 29 Aug 1999
| ;; Maintainer:      Andy Piper <andy@xemacs.org>

| ;; Keywords: mail, pop3
| ;; Version: 2.04

The "official" (and now final) version of pop3.el as far as I am concerned
is 1.3s.

A quick look at 2.03 (the version with XEmacs 21.1.4 that I have) indicates
that there are numerous fixes in 1.3 that have not been rolled into 2.0.
Of note: Content-Length headers are not generated, no coding-system fixes,
no unwind-protects around pop3-movemail's guts to help it fall out more
gracefully on an error condition, a simple fix for a problem caused by
Win32's different line termination is not there, nor is the fix for a
problem with VMS caused by % characters.

I am copying Andy on this to let him know that due to both the FSF and
XEmacs people (him in particular because he has assumed control on behalf
of XEmacs) neglecting to inform me of code changes I have given up
maintaining pop3.el, and that the code he is maintaining is critically
flawed.
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-- 
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.

Re: Emacs 20.4 & Pterodactyl & pop3.el

[Andy Piper]

At 04:51 PM 8/29/99 -0400, Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>I am copying Andy on this to let him know that due to both the FSF and
>XEmacs people (him in particular because he has assumed control on behalf
>of XEmacs) neglecting to inform me of code changes I have given up
>maintaining pop3.el, and that the code he is maintaining is critically
>flawed.

Thank you. I will roll in the changes to our version.

As a note of order the XEmacs changes are pretty much identical to the ones
I sent you a while back.

andy
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Andy Piper
Senior Consultant Architect, BEA Systems Ltd

Re: Emacs 20.4 & Pterodactyl

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Nicolas Chuche <nchuche@teaser.fr> writes:

> > > And i've got a question : what is the gnus 5.7 with emacs 20.4 ?
> > 
> > It's the last Gnus 5.6 minus the XEmacs stuff.  Kinda.
> 
> And who's the $*ùù*$^ who give this version number ?

Mee!

> I've search for 2 days what is this 5.7...

*evil laughter*  My plan to waste the time of the world's computer
users by numbering releases in a silly way is finally coming to
fruition!  Soon, the world's entire population will be looking for
Flargbnoze Gnus v9.3bz, and the world will grind to a halt and be
mine!  Mine!

(I haven't yet worked out how, exactly, it gets to be mine, but I'm
sure that's just a minor detail.)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen