From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/80317 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: RE: smtp crap Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 20:22:53 -0700 Message-ID: <4D6DF172AADA4ABE91811E8F1C792488@us.oracle.com> References: <8739f4kzp3.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87ipo0p1bc.fsf@stupidchicken.com><58C87CB9F44943A7BBE78F2D6B62A850@us.oracle.com><83botsf06d.fsf@gnu.org> <83k48cxj85.fsf@gnu.org> <87aa97nghb.fsf@stupidchicken.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1318389793 3641 80.91.229.12 (12 Oct 2011 03:23:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 03:23:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: larsi@gnus.org, miles@gnu.org, 'Stefan Monnier' , ding@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Chong Yidong'" , "'Eli Zaretskii'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 12 05:23:08 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RDpPP-0004rX-AD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 12 Oct 2011 05:23:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48196 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDpPN-0008Mr-RU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 23:23:05 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:60800) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDpPL-0008MT-67 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 23:23:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDpPK-0000SL-0j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 23:23:03 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:28167) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDpPH-0000Qu-10; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 23:22:59 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet23.oracle.com (ucsinet23.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p9C3Msl7005078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 12 Oct 2011 03:22:56 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet23.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p9C3MrvC019461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 12 Oct 2011 03:22:53 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt120.oracle.com (abhmt120.oracle.com [141.146.116.72]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p9C3Ml03003091; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 22:22:47 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.63.132) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 20:22:47 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87aa97nghb.fsf@stupidchicken.com> Thread-Index: AcyIfqMRTKPrV4HTSDyHS8UNkDjqNwADR4Nw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: ucsinet23.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090201.4E950811.0048,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 141.146.126.227 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:144949 gmane.emacs.gnus.general:80317 Archived-At: > > I cannot speak for Posix platforms nowadays, but I do know=20 > > that almost every Windows box out there has its mail client set up >=20 > Considering the increasing popularity of webmail, this may not be true > anymore. Really? Is that in relative terms? Numbers of emails sent per...? > Also, I don't like the argument that we should treat Windows users > differently from users on other platforms, just because they=20 > are likely to use some proprietary mail client. So now non-GNU-Emacs means "proprietary"? Gonfl=E9s, we are. Here is Wikipedia's list of email clients: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_e-mail_clients Is Gnus the only one of them that you bless with the holy baptismal = water of "freeness"? Shall we load the cannons and blast the bejesus out of = Thunderbird, Mutt, and Seamonkey? > In that context, offering to set up Emacs for sending email > is actually good, if it encourages less dependence on such > mail clients. So this _is_ about pushing people to use Emacs/Gnus for email. The word "misguided" comes to mind... I guess this is what a little Gnus can do = to you. ("This is your Emacs. And this is your Emacs on Gnus...") "Offer" to set up Emacs for sending mail all you want, but please keep = the SPECIAL OFFER!!! stuff under wraps. Let users actually come looking for = it before you "offer" it to them, please. (What exciting popups are in = store for us in Emacs 24.2?)