From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/53105 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: spam.el configurations needed (also: Some more bogofilter information) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:58:30 -0400 Organization: =?koi8-r?q?=F4=C5=CF=C4=CF=D2=20=FA=CC=C1=D4=C1=CE=CF=D7?= @ Cienfuegos Sender: ding-owner@lists.math.uh.edu Message-ID: <4n7k7ssg95.fsf@lockgroove.bwh.harvard.edu> References: <87isrdc3uj.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1055350713 32379 80.91.224.249 (11 Jun 2003 16:58:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 16:58:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M1649@lists.math.uh.edu Wed Jun 11 18:58:30 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from malifon.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.13]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 19Q8tR-0008D8-00 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:56:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by malifon.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 19Q8vo-0003YO-00; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:58:40 -0500 Original-Received: from sclp3.sclp.com ([64.157.176.121]) by malifon.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 19Q8vg-0003YI-00 for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:58:32 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 47707 invoked by alias); 11 Jun 2003 16:58:32 -0000 Original-Received: (qmail 47702 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2003 16:58:32 -0000 Original-Received: from clifford.bwh.harvard.edu (134.174.9.41) by sclp3.sclp.com with SMTP; 11 Jun 2003 16:58:32 -0000 Original-Received: from lockgroove.bwh.harvard.edu (lockgroove [134.174.9.133]) by clifford.bwh.harvard.edu (8.10.2+Sun/8.11.0) with ESMTP id h5BGwVI02463; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: (from tzz@localhost) by lockgroove.bwh.harvard.edu (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.0) id h5BGwVl17365; Wed, 11 Jun 2003 12:58:31 -0400 (EDT) Original-To: Russ Allbery X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6;d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" Mail-Followup-To: Russ Allbery , ding@gnus.org In-Reply-To: <87isrdc3uj.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu> (Russ Allbery's message of "Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:08:36 -0700") User-Agent: Gnus/5.1003 (Gnus v5.10.3) Emacs/21.3 (usg-unix-v) Precedence: bulk Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:53105 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general:53105 On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, rra@stanford.edu wrote: > I haven't had time to turn this into a patch to the manual, and I'm > not sure if I will have time, but I just finished setting up > bogofilter and wrote up some of the things that I found confusing as > well as some random notes on the process. I would certainly appreciate your patch to the manual. I don't have too much free time either, unfortunately. If anyone feels like it, a reorganization of the spam.el docs in the manual would be very useful. I wrote it in an organic fashion, without a plan, and as a programmer I'm not a good documentation writer for my own code :) > (One of the things that I found confusing was that the documentation > really did not explain how to set the relevant variables by hand if > one didn't want to use group properties or customize. I appreciate > that lots of people like the newfangled customize way, but being a > programmer, I really like a programmatic API that I can write in > Lisp.) So you don't like that the *structure* of those variables is not explained, or that *examples* of actual settings are not given? For the first part, it's a lot of duplicate effort IMHO to explain what is clearly available through the customize interface. The defcustom declarations describe the variable structure completely. Also, comments in the examples would be better than a dry recounting of internal variable structure, IMHO again. For the second one, I agree that examples of settings would be very useful. So please, spam.el users, send me your configurations and I'll try to include them in the manual. This seems to be the biggest stumbling block for new users - starting a new configuration is pretty hard. Russ, furthermore on your web page: http://journals.eyrie.org/eagle/archives/000052.html RA: "gnus-spam-process-newsgroups takes a list of pairs of similar regexes matched to lists of processing functions, which is different than what the documentation says. " In the manual I just have: @vindex gnus-spam-process-newsgroups The concepts of ham processors and spam processors are very important. Ham processors and spam processors for a group can be set with the @code{spam-process} group parameter, or the @code{gnus-spam-process-newsgroups} variable. Ham processors take mail known to be non-spam (@emph{ham}) and process it in some way so that later similar mail will also be considered non-spam. Spam processors take mail known to be spam and process it so similar spam will be detected later. I'm not sure where the documentation gives wrong info as you say, can you please clarify? RA: "Another point that's very unclear from the documentation that I found out through a lot of fiddling is that you need to add both the spam and ham bogofilter processors to the list of processors for each of your ham groups. Otherwise, the spam that you mark never actually gets registered with bogofilter." The manual says: When you leave @emph{any} group, regardless of its @code{spam-contents} classification, all spam-marked articles are sent to a spam processor, which will study these as spam samples. If you explicit kill a lot, you might sometimes end up with articles marked @samp{K} which you never saw, and which might accidentally contain spam. Best is to make sure that real spam is marked with @samp{$}, and nothing else. I thought that was clear, but being the programmer and familiar with the software, I'm not a good documentation writer. I assume everyone knows what I mean :) Can you suggest a rewording? Also I think the bit about avoiding auto-expire for newsgroups is very useful, can you suggest a spot in the docs it should go? Thanks Ted