gnus-registry question

gnus-registry question

[Jake Colman]

If I file an incoming email message to a given folder, the registry will make
note of it and automatically file any follow-ups to the same folder.  Great.

How about if I send an email to someone and gcc it to a folder.  Will the
registry note that my outgoing email was filed somewhere and automatically
file the reply?  I'm not sure this works.  Under this situation, I make sure
to explitly read the gcc'ed email that I just sent in order to make dure that
the registry takes note.  When I do this, the reply is file correctly.
Otherwise, I think not.

What about if I reply to an email and then manually move that email to
another folder.  I know that the registry will take note of the move.  But
the reply to the email I sent is a follow-up to _my_ new message, not to the
email that I moved.  Will the registry track that?  Is my question making
sense?

-- 
Jake Colman                     

Principia Partners LLC                    Phone: (201) 209-2467
Harborside Financial Center                 Fax: (201) 946-0320
902 Plaza Two                          E-mail: colman@ppllc.com
Jersey City, NJ 07311                 www.principiapartners.com

Re: gnus-registry question

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, colman@ppllc.com wrote:

> How about if I send an email to someone and gcc it to a folder.
> Will the registry note that my outgoing email was filed somewhere
> and automatically file the reply?  I'm not sure this works.  Under
> this situation, I make sure to explitly read the gcc'ed email that I
> just sent in order to make dure that the registry takes note.  When
> I do this, the reply is file correctly.  Otherwise, I think not.

The registry catches spooling, moving, copying, and deletion of
messages.  You can always check manually if it did what it should
have by raising the value of the gnus-verbose variable (10 is good,
albeit temporarily).  In the Messages buffer, you'll see the
registry's messages.

> What about if I reply to an email and then manually move that email
> to another folder.  I know that the registry will take note of the
> move.  But the reply to the email I sent is a follow-up to _my_ new
> message, not to the email that I moved.  Will the registry track
> that?  Is my question making sense?

The registry will catch the first reference it can track.  So, if the
message that's incoming has references A and B, and A is in group P
but B in group Q, then A wins (I'm pretty sure the references are
checked in the expected order).

Again, look at the Messages buffer to be sure, but I'm pretty sure
that's what will happen, and it's what my testing has shown.  As you
know, the gnus-registry is not stable, so any bugs or quirks you
uncover are greatly appreciated.

Ted

Re: gnus-registry question

[Jake Colman]

>>>>> "TZ" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

   TZ> On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, colman@ppllc.com wrote:
   >> How about if I send an email to someone and gcc it to a folder.
   >> Will the registry note that my outgoing email was filed somewhere
   >> and automatically file the reply?  I'm not sure this works.  Under
   >> this situation, I make sure to explitly read the gcc'ed email that I
   >> just sent in order to make dure that the registry takes note.  When
   >> I do this, the reply is file correctly.  Otherwise, I think not.

   TZ> The registry catches spooling, moving, copying, and deletion of
   TZ> messages.  You can always check manually if it did what it should
   TZ> have by raising the value of the gnus-verbose variable (10 is good,
   TZ> albeit temporarily).  In the Messages buffer, you'll see the
   TZ> registry's messages.

   >> What about if I reply to an email and then manually move that email
   >> to another folder.  I know that the registry will take note of the
   >> move.  But the reply to the email I sent is a follow-up to _my_ new
   >> message, not to the email that I moved.  Will the registry track
   >> that?  Is my question making sense?

   TZ> The registry will catch the first reference it can track.  So, if the
   TZ> message that's incoming has references A and B, and A is in group P
   TZ> but B in group Q, then A wins (I'm pretty sure the references are
   TZ> checked in the expected order).

   TZ> Again, look at the Messages buffer to be sure, but I'm pretty sure
   TZ> that's what will happen, and it's what my testing has shown.  As you
   TZ> know, the gnus-registry is not stable, so any bugs or quirks you
   TZ> uncover are greatly appreciated.

I did find a situation where it is broken.  I have a folder where the gcc is
set to archive the message into the same folder.  I used 'C-u a' to send a
message using that folder's attributes.  I made a point of NOT opening that
folder again.  When I next split my mail after I had received a reply the
reply message did NOT get filed correctly.  I then moved the reply message
back to my INBOX and tried again.  This time, too, it was misfiled.  I again
copied the message back to my INBOX.  This time, however, I opened up the
folder where my initial emial was filed and read that email.  This registered
my original with the registry.  When I now tried splitting, the reply was
filed correctly.

-- 
Jake Colman                     

Principia Partners LLC                    Phone: (201) 209-2467
Harborside Financial Center                 Fax: (201) 946-0320
902 Plaza Two                          E-mail: colman@ppllc.com
Jersey City, NJ 07311                 www.principiapartners.com

Re: gnus-registry question

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, colman@ppllc.com wrote:

> I did find a situation where it is broken.  I have a folder where
> the gcc is set to archive the message into the same folder.  I used
> 'C-u a' to send a message using that folder's attributes.  I made a
> point of NOT opening that folder again.  When I next split my mail
> after I had received a reply the reply message did NOT get filed
> correctly.  I then moved the reply message back to my INBOX and
> tried again.  This time, too, it was misfiled.  I again copied the
> message back to my INBOX.  This time, however, I opened up the
> folder where my initial emial was filed and read that email.  This
> registered my original with the registry.  When I now tried
> splitting, the reply was filed correctly.

Turn up gnus-verbose, and send me the message log when this happens.
I think what you're saying is that a GCC does not automatically send
replies to that message to a folder.  I'll see what I can do to fix
that, and I'll try to duplicate the problem, but your message log
will be very helpful regardless.

Thanks
Ted

Re: gnus-registry question

[Danny Siu]

I Gcc all my replies to "Archive" groups and the group that it is
originated.  I use gnus-registry-split-fancy-with-parent and have added my
"Archive" groups to gnus-registry-ignored-groups.  All the followups seem to
land into the correct mail box

(setq gnus-registry-ignored-groups '(("nnrss" t)
                                     ("nntp" t)
                                     ("spam" t)
                                     ("Archive" t)))

Jake Colman writes:

  Jake> If I file an incoming email message to a given folder, the registry
  Jake> will make note of it and automatically file any follow-ups to the
  Jake> same folder.  Great.

  Jake> How about if I send an email to someone and gcc it to a folder.
  Jake> Will the registry note that my outgoing email was filed somewhere
  Jake> and automatically file the reply?  I'm not sure this works.  Under
  Jake> this situation, I make sure to explitly read the gcc'ed email that I
  Jake> just sent in order to make dure that the registry takes note.  When
  Jake> I do this, the reply is file correctly.  Otherwise, I think not.

  Jake> What about if I reply to an email and then manually move that email
  Jake> to another folder.  I know that the registry will take note of the
  Jake> move.  But the reply to the email I sent is a follow-up to _my_ new
  Jake> message, not to the email that I moved.  Will the registry track
  Jake> that?  Is my question making sense?

  Jake> -- Jake Colman

  Jake> Principia Partners LLC Phone: (201) 209-2467 Harborside Financial
  Jake> Center Fax: (201) 946-0320 902 Plaza Two E-mail: colman@ppllc.com
  Jake> Jersey City, NJ 07311 www.principiapartners.com


-- 
Danny Dick-Fung Siu              mailto:dsiu@adobe.com
Advanced Technology Group @ Adobe Systems Incorporated

Re: gnus-registry question

[Jake Colman]

>>>>> "DS" == Danny Siu <dsiu@adobe.com> writes:

   DS> I Gcc all my replies to "Archive" groups and the group that it is
   DS> originated.  I use gnus-registry-split-fancy-with-parent and have added my
   DS> "Archive" groups to gnus-registry-ignored-groups.  All the followups seem to
   DS> land into the correct mail box

   DS> (setq gnus-registry-ignored-groups '(("nnrss" t)
   DS>                                      ("nntp" t)
   DS>                                      ("spam" t)
   DS>                                      ("Archive" t)))

This is a great idea!  When using gnus-registry-ignored-groups is the group
name a regexp?  Most of mym emails are archived in nnimap+hamilton:Archive/*
where "*" is a mailbox name in the format YYYY-MM.  How can I use this
variable to specify ALL of these mailboxes without explicitly naming each
one?

-- 
Jake Colman                     

Principia Partners LLC                    Phone: (201) 209-2467
Harborside Financial Center                 Fax: (201) 946-0320
902 Plaza Two                          E-mail: colman@ppllc.com
Jersey City, NJ 07311                 www.principiapartners.com

Re: gnus-registry question

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Wed, 12 Nov 2003, dsiu@adobe.com wrote:

> I Gcc all my replies to "Archive" groups and the group that it is
> originated.  I use gnus-registry-split-fancy-with-parent and have
> added my "Archive" groups to gnus-registry-ignored-groups.  All the
> followups seem to land into the correct mail box
> 
> (setq gnus-registry-ignored-groups '(("nnrss" t)
>                                      ("nntp" t)
>                                      ("spam" t)
>                                      ("Archive" t)))

Are you sure you don't mean gnus-registry-unfollowed-groups (default
is '("delayed" "drafts" "queue"))?  I can't find
gnus-registry-ignored-groups in my code :)

gnus-registry.el also respects
nnmail-split-fancy-with-parent-ignore-groups.

Both of the variables above are actually lists of strings to be
matched, not association lists as you indicate.

I think the list you indicate would actually be good for general use
as a default, with a slight modification:

(setq gnus-registry-unfollowed-groups '("delayed" "drafts" "queue"
                                        "^nnrss:" "^nntp:" "spam"))

;; untested
(when (featurep 'spam)
 (dolist (group spam-junk-mailgroups)
 (add-to-list gnus-registry-unfollowed-groups group)))

What do you think of the above as a default?  The ^ anchor is needed
because otherwise groups like "nnml:discuss-nntp" would be matched.

Thanks
Ted

Re: gnus-registry question

[Raymond Scholz]

· Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> wrote:

> Are you sure you don't mean gnus-registry-unfollowed-groups (default
> is '("delayed" "drafts" "queue"))?  I can't find
> gnus-registry-ignored-groups in my code :)

In lisp/gnus.el there's still a trace of
`gnus-registry-ignored-groups' :-)

> I think the list you indicate would actually be good for general use
> as a default, with a slight modification:
> (setq gnus-registry-unfollowed-groups '("delayed" "drafts" "queue"
>                                         "^nnrss:" "^nntp:" "spam"))

Yes, my old `gnus-registry-ignored-groups' did contain "^nnrss:" and
"^nntp:".

> (when (featurep 'spam)
>  (dolist (group spam-junk-mailgroups)
>  (add-to-list gnus-registry-unfollowed-groups group)))
>
> What do you think of the above as a default?  The ^ anchor is needed
> because otherwise groups like "nnml:discuss-nntp" would be matched.

Great.  Unless spammers start using the References
header. Uhm... Never mind :-)

Cheers, Ray
-- 
http://my.gnus.org - To boldly frobnicate what no newbie has grokked before.

Re: gnus-registry question

[Danny Siu]

Ted,

From gnus/lisp/ChangeLog:

2003-05-09  Teodor Zlatanov  <tzz@lifelogs.com>

	* gnus.el (gnus-variable-list): removed gnus-registry-alist and
	gnus-registry-headers-alist from the list
	(gnus-registry-headers-alist): removed
	(registry-ignore): new parameter, with accompanying
	gnus-registry-ignored-groups global variable

gnus-registry-ignored-groups was added to gnus.el but later removed,
probably obsoleted by gnus-registry-unfollowed-groups.

Well, why my setting works is probably because gnus registry respects:

(setq nnmail-split-fancy-with-parent-ignore-groups '("Archive" "spam"))

Which is nice.  

Ted Zlatanov writes:

  Ted> Are you sure you don't mean gnus-registry-unfollowed-groups (default
  Ted> is '("delayed" "drafts" "queue"))?  I can't find
  Ted> gnus-registry-ignored-groups in my code :)

  Ted> gnus-registry.el also respects
  Ted> nnmail-split-fancy-with-parent-ignore-groups.

  Ted> Both of the variables above are actually lists of strings to be
  Ted> matched, not association lists as you indicate.

  Ted> I think the list you indicate would actually be good for general use
  Ted> as a default, with a slight modification:

  Ted> (setq gnus-registry-unfollowed-groups '("delayed" "drafts" "queue"
  Ted>                                         "^nnrss:" "^nntp:" "spam"))

  Ted> ;; untested
  Ted> (when (featurep 'spam)
  Ted>  (dolist (group spam-junk-mailgroups) (add-to-list
  Ted>  gnus-registry-unfollowed-groups group)))

  Ted> What do you think of the above as a default?  The ^ anchor is needed
  Ted> because otherwise groups like "nnml:discuss-nntp" would be matched.

  Ted> Thanks Ted

-- 
Danny Dick-Fung Siu              mailto:dsiu@adobe.com
Advanced Technology Group @ Adobe Systems Incorporated

gnus-registry-ignored-groups (was: gnus-registry question)

[Ted Zlatanov]

OK, here's the straight answer to gnus-registry-ignored-groups:

I had forgotten about it, and my comment was wrong.  It is indeed
used.

gnus-registry-ignored-groups is used when deciding if a group name
should be stored at all.  There's also a registry-ignore group
parameter that will do the same thing.

gnus-registry-unfollowed-groups and
nnmail-split-fancy-with-parent-ignore-groups are used when we get a
group name, and decide if we should give it back.  So the *ignored*
groups never get in the registry, while the *unfollowed* groups are
filtered out.

This is actually a meaningful difference.  Registry entries currently
get deleted when there are no more groups associated with them.
Thus, if you value the registry information about articles in a
group, you'd use gnus-registry-unfollowed-groups.  If you never want
to hear about articles in a group, you'd use
gnus-registry-ignored-groups.

nnmail-split-fancy-with-parent-ignore-groups has an unfortunately
confusing name.  It is analogous to gnus-registry-unfollowed-groups.

The above will *definitely* go in the manual.  Sorry for the confusion!

Ted