Re: Changing charset for posting news

Re: Changing charset for posting news

[Aidan Kehoe]

 Ar an dara lá déag de mí Iúil, scríobh David Sumbler: 

 > > Hit `G c' on the group that you want to customize.  Set the preferred
 > > charset to iso-8859-1.  Save.  That should do it.  The Gnus manual
 > > should have more information on this - I don't use it myself, so the
 > > manual is the authoritative source.
 > 
 > Strange: I have tried this, having commented out in .gnus the lines
 > suggested by Aidan, and it doesn't work!  Despite having specified
 > iso-8859-1, as you suggest, messages I send to the fr.test group still
 > are sent as UTF-8 and quoted printable.

That’s a bug that some changes I made tickled, according to this mail:

http://list-archive.xemacs.org/xemacs-beta/200505/msg00121.html

But I’ve looked into this some more, and, well, the design of that code is
hugely broken--loads of programming using and endorsing underdocumented
dynamic binding, crazy return values--and I haven’t seen an example where
setting mm-coding-system-priorities appropriately is broken. I’ll put
together a patch removing support for newsgroup-specific character sets if
this sounds reasonable. 

If not, I’ll look into adding support for binding message-posting-charset
around calls to mm-find-charset-region, which should re-add support for the
charset-per-newsgroup approach. 

-- 
Russian has no phoneme that corresponds directly to Germanic /h/. As a 
result, for a not-insignificant number of people, the Second World War 
involved the Soviet Union defeating Адольф Гитлер, “Adolf Gitler.” 

Re: Changing charset for posting news

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005, kehoea@parhasard.net wrote:

> Ar an dara lá déag de mí Iúil, scríobh David Sumbler: 
> 
>  > Strange: I have tried this, having commented out in .gnus the lines
>  > suggested by Aidan, and it doesn't work!  Despite having specified
>  > iso-8859-1, as you suggest, messages I send to the fr.test group still
>  > are sent as UTF-8 and quoted printable.
> 
> That’s a bug that some changes I made tickled, according to this mail:
> 
> http://list-archive.xemacs.org/xemacs-beta/200505/msg00121.html
> 
> But I’ve looked into this some more, and, well, the design of that code is
> hugely broken--loads of programming using and endorsing underdocumented
> dynamic binding, crazy return values--and I haven’t seen an example where
> setting mm-coding-system-priorities appropriately is broken. I’ll put
> together a patch removing support for newsgroup-specific character sets if
> this sounds reasonable. 

I think removing features is the wrong way to go, personally.  Setting
the charset per newsgroup is useful.

> If not, I’ll look into adding support for binding message-posting-charset
> around calls to mm-find-charset-region, which should re-add support for the
> charset-per-newsgroup approach. 

If you could do that, it would be great.  I was going to look into it
when I had free time, which will not be soon :) I think it's a
valuable Gnus feature.

Ted

Re: Changing charset for posting news

[Aidan Kehoe]

 Ar an cúigiú lá déag de mí Iúil, scríobh Ted Zlatanov: 

 > > That’s a bug that some changes I made tickled, according to this mail:
 > > 
 > > http://list-archive.xemacs.org/xemacs-beta/200505/msg00121.html
 > > 
 > > But I’ve looked into this some more, and, well, the design of that code is
 > > hugely broken--loads of programming using and endorsing underdocumented
 > > dynamic binding, crazy return values--and I haven’t seen an example where
 > > setting mm-coding-system-priorities appropriately is broken. I’ll put
 > > together a patch removing support for newsgroup-specific character sets if
 > > this sounds reasonable. 
 > 
 > I think removing features is the wrong way to go, personally.  Setting
 > the charset per newsgroup is useful.

Do you use the feature? Since Emacs de-unifies the Han character sets, the
only people for whom this would be theoretically useful, in the presence of
a working mm-coding-system-priorities variable that chooses the character
set based on the message content, would be Russian speakers who want to
choose between koi8-r and windows-1251 for their Russian posts. Are there
any such users? (Or Bulgarians or Serbs etc. who want to make the same
choice, I suppose.)

Agreed, it does offer a better out-of-the-box experience for Cyrillic users;
but changing the default value of mm-coding-system-priorities based on
language environment would achieve the same thing, I think. 

 > > If not, I’ll look into adding support for binding
 > > message-posting-charset around calls to mm-find-charset-region, which
 > > should re-add support for the charset-per-newsgroup approach.
 > 
 > If you could do that, it would be great.  I was going to look into it
 > when I had free time, which will not be soon :) I think it's a
 > valuable Gnus feature.

And it’s horrible, horrible code :-) . 

-- 
Russian has no phoneme that's close to Germanic /h/. As a result, for a
not-insignificant number of people, the Second World War involved the Soviet
Union defeating Адольф Гитлер, �Adolf Gitler.”
 

Re: Changing charset for posting news

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005, kehoea@parhasard.net wrote:

> Ar an cúigiú lá déag de mí Iúil, scríobh Ted Zlatanov: 

>  > I think removing features is the wrong way to go, personally.  Setting
>  > the charset per newsgroup is useful.
> 
> Do you use the feature? Since Emacs de-unifies the Han character
> sets, the only people for whom this would be theoretically useful,
> in the presence of a working mm-coding-system-priorities variable
> that chooses the character set based on the message content, would
> be Russian speakers who want to choose between koi8-r and
> windows-1251 for their Russian posts. Are there any such users? (Or
> Bulgarians or Serbs etc. who want to make the same choice, I
> suppose.)

Some groups (Usenet and others) require a certain character set.  I
don't think mm-coding-system-priorities will handle that.  This is not
just for Cyrillic posts.

> Agreed, it does offer a better out-of-the-box experience for
> Cyrillic users; but changing the default value of
> mm-coding-system-priorities based on language environment would
> achieve the same thing, I think.

Would it work, then, to connect the per-group charset parameter with code
that uses it to set the mm-coding-system-priorities on group entry?  I
think that's what you were suggesting as well.

> And it’s horrible, horrible code :-) . 

Simplifying or eliminating bad code is definitely a worthy goal.  I
just think the feature is valuable.

Ted