Why do I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups?

Why do I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups?

[Kai Grossjohann]

I customized gnus-use-adaptive-scoring, like so:

    Gnus Use Adaptive Scoring: Hide Value
    [X] word
    [X] line
       State: this option has been set and saved.

    If non-nil, use some adaptive scoring scheme. Hide Rest
    If a list, then the values `word' and `line' are meaningful.  The
    former will perform adaption on individual words in the subject
    header while `line' will perform adaption on several headers.
    Parent groups: Gnus Meta Gnus Score Adapt

I turned adaptive scoring off (I think!) for nnml groups, by
customizing gnus-parameters like so:

    Gnus Parameters: Hide Value
    INS DEL Cons-cell:
                Regexp: ^nnml\>
                Repeat:
                INS DEL Lisp expression: (gcc-self . t)
                INS DEL Lisp expression: (gnus-use-adaptive-scoring ignore)
                INS
    INS
       State: this option has been set and saved.

    Alist of group parameters. Hide Rest

    For example:
       (("mail\\..*"  (gnus-show-threads nil)
                      (gnus-use-scoring nil)
                      (gnus-summary-line-format
                            "%U%R%z%I%(%[%d:%ub%-23,23f%]%) %s\n")
                      (gcc-self . t)
                      (display . all))
         ("mail\\.me" (gnus-use-scoring  t))
         ("list\\..*" (total-expire . t)
                      (broken-reply-to . t)))
    Parent groups: Gnus Group Various
    Parent documentation: Manual.

What's wrong?

Kai

Re: Why do I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups?

[Kai Grossjohann]

Kai Grossjohann <kai@emptydomain.de> writes:

> What's wrong?

Well, err.  I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups, and I also get the
corresponding scoring.  (I used V t on a random scored-down article in
an nnml group to check that the scoring came from its adapt file.)

So the question should be: why do I get adaptive scoring in nnml
groups?  And how to turn it off?

Kai

Re: Why do I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups?

[Jonas Steverud]

Kai Grossjohann <kai@emptydomain.de> writes:

> Kai Grossjohann <kai@emptydomain.de> writes:
>
>> What's wrong?
[...]
> So the question should be: why do I get adaptive scoring in nnml
> groups?  And how to turn it off?


I use
(setq
 gnus-parameters (list
		  '("nnfolder:" (gnus-use-scoring nil))
		  '("nndraft:" (gnus-use-scoring nil))
		  )
)

Replace gnus-use-scoring with gnus-use-adaptive-scoring. (Not tested.)

Maybe not the best way but it works. :-)

-- 
(        http://hem.bredband.net/steverud/        !     Wei Wu Wei     )
(        Meaning of U2 Lyrics, Roleplaying        !  To Do Without Do  )

guns-parameters dynamic updates (was: Why do I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups?)

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004, tvrud@bredband.net wrote:

> (setq
>  gnus-parameters (list
> 		  '("nnfolder:" (gnus-use-scoring nil))
> 		  '("nndraft:" (gnus-use-scoring nil))
> 		  )
> )

This made me wonder, why not have functionality in Gnus that
"gathers" all the group/topic parameters into the gnus-parameters
variable, and then the opposite functionality, that would take
gnus-parameters and apply its values to all the known groups,
whenever they apply?

Would this be useful to anyone?  I would love it, because then I would
set group/topic parameters individually with `G p', and then one
command would gather all my customizations into gnus-parameters.

Ted

Re: guns-parameters dynamic updates

[Kai Grossjohann]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> This made me wonder, why not have functionality in Gnus that
> "gathers" all the group/topic parameters into the gnus-parameters
> variable, and then the opposite functionality, that would take
> gnus-parameters and apply its values to all the known groups,
> whenever they apply?
>
> Would this be useful to anyone?  I would love it, because then I would
> set group/topic parameters individually with `G p', and then one
> command would gather all my customizations into gnus-parameters.

It seems that gnus-parameters has no `G c' like interface.  So what
would be really cool is a way to say `G c' and then say "apply this to
all groups matching the following regex".

Or maybe the other way round: a command that lists all known regexes
in gnus-parameters, then does like `G c' when you select one.  And
that allows you to add a regex.

Opinions?

Kai (should be doing some coding instead of making stupid suggestions)

Re: guns-parameters dynamic updates

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004, kai@emptydomain.de wrote:

> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
> 
>> This made me wonder, why not have functionality in Gnus that
>> "gathers" all the group/topic parameters into the gnus-parameters
>> variable, and then the opposite functionality, that would take
>> gnus-parameters and apply its values to all the known groups,
>> whenever they apply?
>>
>> Would this be useful to anyone?  I would love it, because then I
>> would set group/topic parameters individually with `G p', and then
>> one command would gather all my customizations into
>> gnus-parameters.
> 
> It seems that gnus-parameters has no `G c' like interface.  So what
> would be really cool is a way to say `G c' and then say "apply this
> to all groups matching the following regex".

Would this be possible?  We would need to modify the functions that
generate parameter definitions (in gnus.el I think).  But it
certainly would be cool.

> Or maybe the other way round: a command that lists all known regexes
> in gnus-parameters, then does like `G c' when you select one.  And
> that allows you to add a regex.
> 
> Opinions?

I like the first.

But my suggestion was something different: it would gather *existing*
customizations from all the group/topic parameters in newsrc.eld and
put them in gnus-parameters, so you don't depend on the values in
newsrc.eld.  It would work in reverse too, applying gnus-parameters
to each individual group.

Ted

Re: guns-parameters dynamic updates

[Kai Grossjohann]

Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

> On Fri, 05 Mar 2004, kai@emptydomain.de wrote:
>
>> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> 
>>> This made me wonder, why not have functionality in Gnus that
>>> "gathers" all the group/topic parameters into the gnus-parameters
>>> variable, and then the opposite functionality, that would take
>>> gnus-parameters and apply its values to all the known groups,
>>> whenever they apply?
>>>
>>> Would this be useful to anyone?  I would love it, because then I
>>> would set group/topic parameters individually with `G p', and then
>>> one command would gather all my customizations into
>>> gnus-parameters.
>> 
>> It seems that gnus-parameters has no `G c' like interface.  So what
>> would be really cool is a way to say `G c' and then say "apply this
>> to all groups matching the following regex".
>
> Would this be possible?  We would need to modify the functions that
> generate parameter definitions (in gnus.el I think).  But it
> certainly would be cool.

Well, `G c' certainly converts the stuff entered by the user into a
parameter list.  I don't know whether this piece of code can be used
from elsewhere, or whether it directly sets the parameter.

But if it is possible to get the parameter list, then we just stuff
this into gnus-parameters, no?

Kai

Re: Why do I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups?

[Yair Friedman]

Some SCORE rules (followup, and maybe others) create also implicit ADAPT
files.

Do you have any followup rules turned on?

HTH
Yair.

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:13:17 +0100, 
Kai Grossjohann <kai@emptydomain.de> writes:

> Kai Grossjohann <kai@emptydomain.de> writes:
>
>> What's wrong?
>
> Well, err.  I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups, and I also get the
> corresponding scoring.  (I used V t on a random scored-down article in
> an nnml group to check that the scoring came from its adapt file.)
>
> So the question should be: why do I get adaptive scoring in nnml
> groups?  And how to turn it off?
>
> Kai

Re: Why do I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups?

[Kai Grossjohann]

Yair Friedman <yairfr@icts-tech.com> writes:

> Some SCORE rules (followup, and maybe others) create also implicit ADAPT
> files.
>
> Do you have any followup rules turned on?

No, I don't think so.  I think I'd remember it, if it was so.

Kai

Re: Why do I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups?

[Reiner Steib]

On Mon, Mar 01 2004, Kai Grossjohann wrote:

> Well, err.  I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups, and I also get the
> corresponding scoring.  (I used V t on a random scored-down article in
> an nnml group to check that the scoring came from its adapt file.)
>
> So the question should be: why do I get adaptive scoring in nnml
> groups?  

It's a bug, I think.

> And how to turn it off?

A workaround is to set gnus-newsgroup-adaptive to nil.  See
<URL:http://thread.gmane.org/ufzrnimxc.fsf@pille.fhaun.de>.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW   http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Why do I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups?

[Miles Bader]

Reiner Steib <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> writes:
> > So the question should be: why do I get adaptive scoring in nnml
> > groups?  
> 
> It's a bug, I think.

Maybe I'm missing the point, but why _shouldn't_ one get adaptive
scoring in nnml groups?  They're just groups after all...

-Miles
-- 
o The existentialist, not having a pillow, goes everywhere with the book by
  Sullivan, _I am going to spit on your graves_.

Re: Why do I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups?

[Reiner Steib]

On Mon, Mar 01 2004, Miles Bader wrote:

> Reiner Steib <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> writes:
>> > So the question should be: why do I get adaptive scoring in nnml
>> > groups?  
>> 
>> It's a bug, I think.
>
> Maybe I'm missing the point, but why _shouldn't_ one get adaptive
> scoring in nnml groups?  They're just groups after all...

Sure.  But not if `gnus-newsgroup-adaptive' is set to nil in nnml
groups.  For example, I had (gnus-use-adaptive-scoring nil) in my
`gnus-parameters' and got *.ADAPT files for nnimap nevertheless.
After using (gnus-newsgroup-adaptive nil) I didn't get those anymore:

(setq
 gnus-parameters
 `(("^\\(nnimap\\|nnfolder\\|nnml\\|nndraft\\)\\>"
    ;; (gnus-use-adaptive-scoring nil)
    (gnus-newsgroup-adaptive nil);; <ur8boo0b6.fsf@pille.fhaun.de>
    (gnus-use-scoring nil))
 [...]))

(See the URL in my previous message.)  IIRC, I also checked that
`gnus-use-adaptive-scoring' really had a nil value in the relevant
summary buffer.

Regarding Kai's setup, I'm not sure if "ignore" is supposed to work:

,----
|     Gnus Parameters: Hide Value
|     INS DEL Cons-cell:
|                 Regexp: ^nnml\>
|                 Repeat:
|                 INS DEL Lisp expression: (gcc-self . t)
|                 INS DEL Lisp expression: (gnus-use-adaptive-scoring ignore)
`----

Why didn't you use nil here, Kai?

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW   http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Why do I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups?

[Miles Bader]

Reiner Steib <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> writes:
> > Maybe I'm missing the point, but why _shouldn't_ one get adaptive
> > scoring in nnml groups?  They're just groups after all...
> 
> Sure.  But not if `gnus-newsgroup-adaptive' is set to nil in nnml
> groups.

Of course, I was missing the point ... :-)

-Miles
-- 
80% of success is just showing up.  --Woody Allen

Re: Why do I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups?

[Kai Grossjohann]

Reiner Steib <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> writes:

> Regarding Kai's setup, I'm not sure if "ignore" is supposed to work:
>
> ,----
> |     Gnus Parameters: Hide Value
> |     INS DEL Cons-cell:
> |                 Regexp: ^nnml\>
> |                 Repeat:
> |                 INS DEL Lisp expression: (gcc-self . t)
> |                 INS DEL Lisp expression: (gnus-use-adaptive-scoring ignore)
> `----
>
> Why didn't you use nil here, Kai?

*blush*  I don't know...  Is it supposed to work to put
(gnus-use-adaptive-scoring nil) or (gnus-use-adaptive-scoring . nil)
in there?

I'll try your gnus-newsgroup-adaptive workaround.

Kai

Re: Why do I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups?

[Reiner Steib]

On Tue, Mar 02 2004, Kai Grossjohann wrote:

> Reiner Steib <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> writes:
>
>> Regarding Kai's setup, I'm not sure if "ignore" is supposed to work:
[...]
>> Why didn't you use nil here, Kai?
>
> *blush*  I don't know...  Is it supposed to work to put
> (gnus-use-adaptive-scoring nil) or (gnus-use-adaptive-scoring . nil)
> in there?

My understanding is that (gnus-use-adaptive-scoring nil) _should_
work.  But I don't understand the relation between
gnus-newsgroup-adaptive and gnus-use-adaptive-scoring in the code:

,----[ grep -n -e gnus-use-adaptive-scoring *.el ]
| gnus-cus.el:574:adaptive scoring on most groups, you'd set `gnus-use-adaptive-scoring'
| gnus-cus.el:577:groups, you'd set `gnus-use-adaptive-scoring' to nil, and insert
| gnus-sum.el:1376:    (gnus-newsgroup-adaptive . gnus-use-adaptive-scoring)
| gnus.el:1389:(defcustom gnus-use-adaptive-scoring nil
| 
| grep finished (matches found) at Tue Mar  2 00:20:33
`----

BTW: The manual doesn't explicitly state that setting
`gnus-use-adaptive-scoring' is supposed to be set local to groups.
Instead there's something in the context of the `adapt' entry:

,----[ (info "(gnus)Score File Format") ]
| `adapt'
|      This entry controls the adaptive scoring.  If it is `t', the
|      default adaptive scoring rules will be used.  If it is `ignore', no
|      adaptive scoring will be performed on this group.  If it is a
|      list, this list will be used as the adaptive scoring rules.  If it
|      isn't present, or is something other than `t' or `ignore', the
|      default adaptive scoring rules will be used.  If you want to use
|      adaptive scoring on most groups, you'd set
|      `gnus-use-adaptive-scoring' to `t', and insert an `(adapt ignore)'
|      in the groups where you do not want adaptive scoring.  If you only
|      want adaptive scoring in a few groups, you'd set
|      `gnus-use-adaptive-scoring' to `nil', and insert `(adapt t)' in
|      the score files of the groups where you want it.
`----

> I'll try your gnus-newsgroup-adaptive workaround.

(JFTR: Frank Haun invented this workaround.)

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW   http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: Why do I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups?

[Kai Grossjohann]

Reiner Steib <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> writes:

> On Mon, Mar 01 2004, Kai Grossjohann wrote:
>
>> Well, err.  I get *.ADAPT files for nnml groups, and I also get the
>> corresponding scoring.  (I used V t on a random scored-down article in
>> an nnml group to check that the scoring came from its adapt file.)
>>
>> So the question should be: why do I get adaptive scoring in nnml
>> groups?  
>
> It's a bug, I think.

OK.  But maybe using `ignore' as the value is the real problem, and
things would work if I set it to nil...

>> And how to turn it off?
>
> A workaround is to set gnus-newsgroup-adaptive to nil.  See
> <URL:http://thread.gmane.org/ufzrnimxc.fsf@pille.fhaun.de>.

OK, I'll try that.

Kai