From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/80247 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: RE: smtp crap Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 07:38:09 -0700 Message-ID: <56BF67300A29462E8B497816B3B85DE6@us.oracle.com> References: <8739f4kzp3.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87ipo0p1bc.fsf@stupidchicken.com><58C87CB9F44943A7BBE78F2D6B62A850@us.oracle.com><83botsf06d.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1318084713 32078 80.91.229.12 (8 Oct 2011 14:38:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2011 14:38:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, miles@gnu.org, ding@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen'" , "'Eli Zaretskii'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 08 16:38:28 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RCY2l-0003HV-PL for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2011 16:38:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35437 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RCY2l-00018Y-5y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2011 10:38:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:51462) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RCY2i-00018I-OV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2011 10:38:25 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RCY2h-0001t5-JZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2011 10:38:24 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:38589) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RCY2e-0001sW-H3; Sat, 08 Oct 2011 10:38:20 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet24.oracle.com (ucsinet24.oracle.com [156.151.31.67]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p98EcHft023616 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 8 Oct 2011 14:38:19 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet24.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p98EWOa7029541 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 8 Oct 2011 14:32:24 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt101.oracle.com (abhmt101.oracle.com [141.146.116.53]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p98EcBkn012530; Sat, 8 Oct 2011 09:38:11 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.53.18) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 08 Oct 2011 07:38:10 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcyFwOzNWx7ma+y1Q42fwFmu5AvQLAABANCg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: ucsinet24.oracle.com [156.151.31.67] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090209.4E90605B.022B,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 141.146.126.227 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:144749 gmane.emacs.gnus.general:80247 Archived-At: > > Chong and Lars, any objections to changing the default value of > > send-mail-function to mailclient-send-it for MS-Windows only? > > I don't think `mailclient-send-it' is a very satisfactory solution for > sending email. It pops up a different mailer, A "different" mailer? Different from what? From Emacs? How about: it pops up the SAME mailer the USER chose and is used to and comfortable with. Are we trying to shove Emacs down people's throats, as a _mailer_? > and the user has to take actions there, too, to actually send the mail. Uh yeah, "take actions": `C-a C-v'. Big deal. No one has complained about that. And if you want to and can obviate the need to hit `C-a C-v' too, then by all means, please do. But please do not try to use that need to paste the composed message (`C-a C-v') as a reason to keep to this ridiculous, extraneous dialog that is not even initiated by the user. > And it doesn't support MIME, so you can't add attachments, and so on. What is "it"? What are you talking about? I add attachments all the time with the mailer I use on Windows. And of course it supports MIME. Please stop worrying about what other mailers support. And please stop imposing the solicitation "are-you-sure-you-don't-want-to-SWITCH-to-Emacs/gnus-NOW-as-your-mailer?" on users. This thing is completely misguided. > mailclient makes Emacs into a second-rate mail client, which seems > unfortunate as a default. It doesn't make Emacs into anything. It simply means _not_ using Emacs as a mail client. So what? Stop trying to push Emacs as a mail client. Let users _request_ it if they want it. _After_ they request it, then you can lead them down the garden path through whatever contorted dialog you like. When a user is simply trying to report a bug - to help improve Emacs! - is no time to interrupt her with an attempt to get her to configure Emacs as her mail client (even if she already has a mail client). And in fact _no_ time is appropriate for doing that. I really cannot believe this one got past the maintainers and they have remained silent about it for months.