Message-ID

Message-ID

[Shigeki Uno]

 Hello all. 

I'm new to this Gnus Mailing List. I'm running XEmacs-21.2.13 on
NetBSD/mac68k 1.4_BETA and sometimes write e-mails with Gnus 5.6.45
on XEmacs-21.2.13. 

I wrote a e-mail and sent it myself for checking whether everything goes 
well or not the other day.  I read recieved mail via another main mail 
program called "mew" and found that Message-ID is wrong. Usually Message-ID 
is made like this: 86btft51j2.fsf@provider's pop server name or domain name.
Right ? But as for e-mail which I sent, Message-ID is like this:
86btft51j2.fsf@lc520.shigenet.jp. 

lc520 is hostname for my desktop machine and shigenet.jp is domainname for
may desktop machine. I connect to Internet via internet service provider
using ppp connection. ISP's domainname is "mediawars.ne.jp" and pop server's
name is "mail.mediawars.ne.jp".

What's wrong with that ?  Any suggestions, please.

Thanks,

---
Shigeki Uno <shigeki@mediawars.ne.jp>

Re: Message-ID

[Karl Kleinpaste]

Gnus manufactures Message-IDs directly, to make sure they exist when
needed.  The Message-ID you describe is correct, because it properly
denotes where the message originated.  It is only the case that mail
relays generate Message-ID when the origin client mailer has failed to 
provide it.

If you really want to disable Gnus' generation of Message-ID, modify
variable message-syntax-checks to disable Message-ID.

Re: Message-ID

[Shigeki Uno]

From: Karl Kleinpaste <karl@justresearch.com>
Subject: Re: Message-ID
Date: 11 May 1999 13:51:57 -0400

> Gnus manufactures Message-IDs directly, to make sure they exist when
> needed.  The Message-ID you describe is correct, because it properly
> denotes where the message originated.  It is only the case that mail
> relays generate Message-ID when the origin client mailer has failed to 
> provide it.
> 
> If you really want to disable Gnus' generation of Message-ID, modify
> variable message-syntax-checks to disable Message-ID.

I don't need to care about it, do I ?

How about <86btft51j2.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id> ?
What does this mean ?

Thanks,

---
Shigeki Uno   

Re: Message-ID

[Stainless Steel Rat]

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* Shigeki Uno <shigeki@mediawars.ne.jp>  on Wed, 12 May 1999
| I don't need to care about it, do I ?

On a properly configured system, no.

| How about <86btft51j2.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id> ?
| What does this mean ?

It means your system is not properly configured.  Your system does not know 
its own fully-qualified domain name.
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-- 
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Caution: Happy Fun Ball may suddenly
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ accelerate to dangerous speeds.
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ 

Re: Message-ID

[Shigeki Uno]

From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Message-ID
Date: 12 May 1999 09:03:37 -0400

 
> * Shigeki Uno <shigeki@mediawars.ne.jp>  on Wed, 12 May 1999
> | I don't need to care about it, do I ?
> 
> On a properly configured system, no.
> 
> | How about <86btft51j2.fsf@totally-fudged-out-message-id> ?
> | What does this mean ?
> 
> It means your system is not properly configured.  Your system does not know 
> its own fully-qualified domain name.

Oops. I already setted up hostname and domainname for my desktop machine 
though...

********************************addition*******************************

I'm a user of Mew and when I send a mail in Mew, Message-ID is made 
like this: 
  
  year month day time loginname @ ISP's domain name

As for Gnus, Message-ID is as follows:

  something @ local hostname.local domainname  

# Both're quiet different :-(

************************************************************************

Later,

---
Shigeki Uno

Re: Message-ID

[Shigeki Uno]

From: Shigeki Uno <shigeki@mediawars.ne.jp>
Subject: Re: Message-ID
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 22:55:38 +0900
 
> Oops. I already setted up hostname and domainname for my desktop machine 
> though...      ^^^|^^^
                    |
                    +--->set

Sorry...

---
Shigeki Uno

Re: Message-ID

[Stainless Steel Rat]

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* Shigeki Uno <shigeki@mediawars.ne.jp>  on Wed, 12 May 1999
| Oops. I already setted up hostname and domainname for my desktop machine
| though...

Gnus uses the system-name function to retrieve the local host name.  For an 
Internet node, this must be a fully-qualified domain name.  If it is not,
your system is not properly configured to be an Internet node, and you get
the 'totally-fudged-out-message-id' as a direct result.
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-- 
Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Happy Fun Ball contains a liquid core,
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ which, if exposed due to rupture, should
PGP Key: at a key server near you!  \ not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.

Re: Message-ID

[Shigeki Uno]

From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>
Subject: Re: Message-ID
Date: 12 May 1999 10:42:59 -0400

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> * Shigeki Uno <shigeki@mediawars.ne.jp>  on Wed, 12 May 1999
> | Oops. I already setted up hostname and domainname for my desktop machine
> | though...
> 
> Gnus uses the system-name function to retrieve the local host name.  For an 
> Internet node, this must be a fully-qualified domain name.  If it is not,
> your system is not properly configured to be an Internet node, and you get
> the 'totally-fudged-out-message-id' as a direct result.

 I got it. Thanks.

---
Shigeki Uno

Re: Message-ID

[Kai.Grossjohann]

Shigeki Uno <shigeki@mediawars.ne.jp> writes:

  > I'm a user of Mew and when I send a mail in Mew, Message-ID is made 
  > like this: 
  >   
  >   year month day time loginname @ ISP's domain name
  > 
  > As for Gnus, Message-ID is as follows:
  > 
  >   something @ local hostname.local domainname  
  > 
  > # Both're quiet different :-(

That's okay.  A msg id must be unique.  So, you put your local host
name after the @ and something locally unique before the @.  Maybe
your ISP generates the msg id when using mew?

kai
-- 
Abort this operation?   [Abort]  [Cancel]

Re: Message-ID

[Shigeki Uno]

From: Kai.Grossjohann@CS.Uni-Dortmund.DE
Subject: Re: Message-ID
Date: 12 May 1999 16:50:37 +0200


> That's okay.  A msg id must be unique.  So, you put your local host
> name after the @ and something locally unique before the @.  Maybe
> your ISP generates the msg id when using mew?

Yes.

Later,

---
Shigeki Uno

Message-ID

[Harry Putnam]

Every time a discussion about What the RFCs have to say about how mail
headers look.  I end up thoroughly confused.

Its my understanding that the part of the message ID after the
ampersand is supposed to be a real pingable address.

In my case it is being generated as the name of my home lan,
chub.local.net or one of the other <machines>.local.net.  Thats how I
set up the network.

These are not pingable outside my local net since I'm a dialup
customer to a "real" ISP.   I have set sendmail to masquerade my
POP and SMTP providers domain "newsguy.com" and to masquerade the
"envelope" .  Still this private local domain is escaping onto the
internet in my message-ID.

I imagine Gnus can be made to generate message-IDs that say:
xxxxxx-fsf@newsguy.com  or something similar, but not sure if that is
desireable either.

Or is it misconfiguration on the machine?  If so what needs to be
changed?  


-- 
Harry Putnam reader@newsguy.com  
Running Redhat Linux-5.2
See http://www.jtan.com/~reader  for a brief pictorial 
saga of construction work in the trade of "Boilermaker"

Re: Message-ID

[Florian Weimer]

Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes:

> Every time a discussion about What the RFCs have to say about how mail
> headers look.  I end up thoroughly confused.
> 
> Its my understanding that the part of the message ID after the
> ampersand is supposed to be a real pingable address.

No, it's sufficient if it's a fully-qualified domain name.  You don't
need to have a DNS entry for the FQDN, but it's better if there's
an MX record (for mail delivery).  An A record (`pingable address')
is certainly not required.  Of course, the FQDN must be from a name
space under your control, otherwise you can't guarantee the uniqness
of the message IDs (which is required for news articles).

Re: Message-ID

[Tibor Simko]

>>>>> "FW" == Florian Weimer <fw@cygnus.stuttgart.netsurf.de> writes:

    FW> You don't need to have a DNS entry for the FQDN, but it's
    FW> better if there's an MX record (for mail delivery).  [...] Of
    FW> course, the FQDN must be from a name space under your control,
    FW> otherwise you can't guarantee the uniqness of the message IDs
    FW> (which is required for news articles).

What about the following situation.  I'm using PPP with dynamic IP.
While offline I'm posting to a local queue which is flushed once the
PPP connection is on.

  * stage #1: At the moment of posting, FQDN is junk-name.isp.com
    since PPP is off.  No DNS entry exists for junk-name.isp.com.  It
    seems impossible to assure the uniqueness of Message-ID since
    someone may very well choose the very same junk-name, post at the
    very same time, using the very same uid, MUA, etc, etc.

  * stage #2: At the moment of sending the message to ISP, FQDN is
    dynamic-name-isp-gives-me.isp.com, which is a DNS-happy name.
    Good, but it is too late to create Message-ID since the post has
    already been queued before.  Since Message-ID attribution already
    happened, it does not seem to be a good idea to rewrite it with
    the new hostname, for several reasons; e.g. someone could have
    used it while I typed my message off-line so we may find the same
    uniqueness problem as described above.

Should the Message-ID creation be left completely to the ISP level and
not dealt with locally at all, neither by MUA nor MTA?

Tibor
-- 
Premature optimization is the root of all evil.  --Donald E Knuth

Re: Message-ID

[Stainless Steel Rat]

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* Tibor Simko <tibor.simko@cern.ch>  on Wed, 12 May 1999
| What about the following situation.  I'm using PPP with dynamic IP.
| While offline I'm posting to a local queue which is flushed once the
| PPP connection is on.

Contact your ISP.  Describe the situation to them.  Ask them what to do
about it.
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Rat <ratinox@peorth.gweep.net>    \ Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
Minion of Nathan - Nathan says Hi! \ 
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