Gnus and Outlook and spam?

Gnus and Outlook and spam?

[Kai Grossjohann]

I downloaded the SpamBayes Outlook plugin and was impressed by its
easy installation and unobtrusive working.  Now I'm thinking that
maybe Gnus can also talk to SpamBayes, and perhaps even in a manner
that makes the two learn from each other.

As you can tell, I'm using Windows (2kpro).

Kai

Re: Gnus and Outlook and spam?

[Jody Klymak]

Hi Kai,

Kai Grossjohann <kai.grossjohann@gmx.net> writes:

> I downloaded the SpamBayes Outlook plugin and was impressed by its
> easy installation and unobtrusive working.  Now I'm thinking that
> maybe Gnus can also talk to SpamBayes, and perhaps even in a manner
> that makes the two learn from each other.

Bogofilter is Bayesian.  It works really well for me - rare false
negatives, even more rare false positives.
  http://bogofilter.sourceforge.net/ 
It compiles easily under Cygwin.

Cheers,  Jody
  
-- 
Jody Klymak      http://mixing.coas.oregonstate.edu/people/jklymak/
mailto:jklymak@coas.oregonstate.edu   

Re: Gnus and Outlook and spam?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, kai.grossjohann@gmx.net wrote:

> I downloaded the SpamBayes Outlook plugin and was impressed by its
> easy installation and unobtrusive working.  Now I'm thinking that
> maybe Gnus can also talk to SpamBayes, and perhaps even in a manner
> that makes the two learn from each other.

I'll be glad to make a SpamBayes interface in spam.el if command-line
or API access is available.

As for easy installation, is anyone interested in a spam.el installer
to generate a basic configuration for a user?  There was talk of
"angels" which are like MS wizards a while ago, but I think that went
nowhere.

Ted

Re: Gnus and Outlook and spam?

[Jake Colman]

I'm very intersted in exploring gnu's spam handling possibilities.  Is it
documented well in the gnus info manual or do I have to look elsewhere?

I read my email using nnimap to get the email off of an old Exchange server.
This being the case, I cannot use any procmail-type solution to process
spam.  I was using IMapAssassin, a script executed via cron to read my IMAP
Inbox and pass its contents through SpamAssassin, but my IS group was not
happy with its continuous use of resources.  Does gnus have anything I can
use?  I am getting desperate!

TIA!

...Jake

>>>>> "TZ" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

   TZ> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, kai.grossjohann@gmx.net wrote:
   >> I downloaded the SpamBayes Outlook plugin and was impressed by its
   >> easy installation and unobtrusive working.  Now I'm thinking that
   >> maybe Gnus can also talk to SpamBayes, and perhaps even in a manner
   >> that makes the two learn from each other.

   TZ> I'll be glad to make a SpamBayes interface in spam.el if command-line
   TZ> or API access is available.

   TZ> As for easy installation, is anyone interested in a spam.el installer
   TZ> to generate a basic configuration for a user?  There was talk of
   TZ> "angels" which are like MS wizards a while ago, but I think that went
   TZ> nowhere.

   TZ> Ted

-- 
Jake Colman                     

Principia Partners LLC                    Phone: (201) 209-2467
Harborside Financial Center                 Fax: (201) 946-0320
902 Plaza Two                          E-mail: colman@ppllc.com
Jersey City, NJ 07311                 www.principiapartners.com

Re: Gnus and Outlook and spam?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, colman@ppllc.com wrote:

> I'm very intersted in exploring gnu's spam handling possibilities.
> Is it documented well in the gnus info manual or do I have to look
> elsewhere?

Check out the CVS manual, it's the most complete set of instructions.

> I read my email using nnimap to get the email off of an old Exchange
> server.  This being the case, I cannot use any procmail-type
> solution to process spam.  I was using IMapAssassin, a script
> executed via cron to read my IMAP Inbox and pass its contents
> through SpamAssassin, but my IS group was not happy with its
> continuous use of resources.  Does gnus have anything I can use?  I
> am getting desperate!

Sure.  Check out the manual.  You can cooperate with anti-spam
packages or use the spam-stat.el package to do all the stats inside
Emacs.

Ted

Re: Gnus and Outlook and spam?

[Jake Colman]

>>>>> "TZ" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

   TZ> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, colman@ppllc.com wrote:
   >> I'm very intersted in exploring gnu's spam handling possibilities.
   >> Is it documented well in the gnus info manual or do I have to look
   >> elsewhere?

   TZ> Check out the CVS manual, it's the most complete set of instructions.

Yup!  Nicely done!

   >> I read my email using nnimap to get the email off of an old Exchange
   >> server.  This being the case, I cannot use any procmail-type
   >> solution to process spam.  I was using IMapAssassin, a script
   >> executed via cron to read my IMAP Inbox and pass its contents
   >> through SpamAssassin, but my IS group was not happy with its
   >> continuous use of resources.  Does gnus have anything I can use?  I
   >> am getting desperate!

   TZ> Sure.  Check out the manual.  You can cooperate with anti-spam
   TZ> packages or use the spam-stat.el package to do all the stats inside
   TZ> Emacs.

But spam-stats is not for nnimap, if I read it correctly.

It sounds like I would want to install bogofilter and use the
nnimap-split-fancy to pass the incoming email through bogofilter.

I already have a long nnimap-split-rule variable definition.  Do I convert
from nnimap-split-rule to nnimap-split-fancy?  Is that documented anywhere?

-- 
Jake Colman                     

Principia Partners LLC                    Phone: (201) 209-2467
Harborside Financial Center                 Fax: (201) 946-0320
902 Plaza Two                          E-mail: colman@ppllc.com
Jersey City, NJ 07311                 www.principiapartners.com

Re: Gnus and Outlook and spam?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, colman@ppllc.com wrote:
> But spam-stats is not for nnimap, if I read it correctly.

I think it will work for any backend.  If not, we can fix that -
report any bugs you find.

> It sounds like I would want to install bogofilter and use the
> nnimap-split-fancy to pass the incoming email through bogofilter.

That works too.

> I already have a long nnimap-split-rule variable definition.  Do I
> convert from nnimap-split-rule to nnimap-split-fancy?  

That would be easiest.

> Is that documented anywhere?

I don't think so, but it's not a difficult conversion.  Post your
current methods and we'll see what we can do :)

Ted

Re: Gnus and Outlook and spam?

[Jake Colman]

>>>>> "TZ" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

   TZ> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, colman@ppllc.com wrote:
   >> But spam-stats is not for nnimap, if I read it correctly.

   TZ> I think it will work for any backend.  If not, we can fix that -
   TZ> report any bugs you find.

I'm glad to hear that but I think the info file for the latest official
release of gnus (v5.10.2) says otherwise.  BTW does 5.10.2 have good support
for spam.el or do I need to use the latest version from cvs?

If spam-stats works with nnimap should I just use it or would bogofilter, if
I don't mind installing it, be a better choice?

   >> I already have a long nnimap-split-rule variable definition.  Do I
   >> convert from nnimap-split-rule to nnimap-split-fancy?  

   TZ> That would be easiest.

   >> Is that documented anywhere?

   TZ> I don't think so, but it's not a difficult conversion.  Post your
   TZ> current methods and we'll see what we can do :)

;; nnimap split rules

(setq nnimap-split-inbox "INBOX")
(setq nnimap-split-crosspost nil)
(setq nnimap-split-rule
      '(
        ; Emacs
        ("INBOX/Emacs/Help" 
              "^To:.*help-gnu-emacs\\|^Resent-From:.*help-gnu-emacs\\|^Cc:.*help-gnu-emacs")
        ("INBOX/Emacs/Gnus" 
              "^Resent-From:.*info-gnus-english\\|^To:.*info-gnus-english")
        ("INBOX/Emacs/XEmacs/Support" 
              "^\\(To\\|Cc\\|From\\|Resent-From\\):.*xemacs@xemacs.org")
        ("INBOX/Emacs/XEmacs/Support" 
              "^\\(To\\|Cc\\|From\\|Resent-From\\):.*xemacs-news@xemacs.org")
        ("INBOX/Emacs/XEmacs/Announce" 
              "^\\(To\\|Cc\\|From\\|Resent-From\\):.*xemacs-announce@xemacs.org")
        ("INBOX/Emacs/XEmacs/Beta" 
              "^\\(To\\|Cc\\|From\\|Resent-From\\):.*xemacs-beta@xemacs.org")
        ...
        ...
        ...
        ("INBOX/Misc"               "")
        ))

How do I convert from this to what I need to do to use bogofilter?

-- 
Jake Colman                     

Principia Partners LLC                    Phone: (201) 209-2467
Harborside Financial Center                 Fax: (201) 946-0320
902 Plaza Two                          E-mail: colman@ppllc.com
Jersey City, NJ 07311                 www.principiapartners.com

Re: Gnus and Outlook and spam?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, colman@ppllc.com wrote:

>>>>>> "TZ" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
> 
>    TZ> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, colman@ppllc.com wrote:
>    >> But spam-stats is not for nnimap, if I read it correctly.
> 
>    TZ> I think it will work for any backend.  If not, we can fix
>    TZ> that - report any bugs you find.
> 
> I'm glad to hear that but I think the info file for the latest
> official release of gnus (v5.10.2) says otherwise.  

Please point that out.  You may be referring to the note for IMAP
users, which relates to statistical filters, but that's not a problem
with IMAP per se, it's just a setting (nnimap-split-download-body)
that you need to turn on.

> BTW does 5.10.2 have good support for spam.el or do I need to use
> the latest version from cvs?

spam.el is a work in progress.  Don't use CVS if you don't want to -
but the CVS version is always the one with more old bugs fixed and
more features (it may have new bugs, but I try not to repeat the old
ones :)

> If spam-stats works with nnimap should I just use it or would
> bogofilter, if I don't mind installing it, be a better choice?

This is entirely up to you.  They are two different tools with
different algorithms and advantages.  spam.el tries to accomodate
both, but the choice is yours.

> ;; nnimap split rules
> 
> (setq nnimap-split-inbox "INBOX")
> (setq nnimap-split-crosspost nil)
> (setq nnimap-split-rule
>       '(
>         ; Emacs
>         ("INBOX/Emacs/Help" 
>               "^To:.*help-gnu-emacs\\|^Resent-From:.*help-gnu-emacs\\|^Cc:.*help-gnu-emacs")
>         ("INBOX/Emacs/Gnus" 
>               "^Resent-From:.*info-gnus-english\\|^To:.*info-gnus-english")
>         ...
>         ...
>         ...
>         ("INBOX/Misc"               "")
>         ))
> 
> How do I convert from this to what I need to do to use bogofilter?

;; this is a very rough approximation, read the fancy splitting docs
;; if you want to know more
(setq nnimap-split-fancy
      '(|
         (any "help-gnu-emacs" "INBOX/Emacs/Help")
         (any "info-gnus-english" "INBOX/Emacs/Gnus")
         ...
         ...
         ...
         ...
         (: spam-split)
         ("INBOX/Misc")))

(setq spam-use-bogofilter t)
(spam-initialize)

Ted

Re: Gnus and Outlook and spam?

[Jake Colman]

>>>>> "TZ" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:

   TZ> Please point that out.  You may be referring to the note for IMAP
   TZ> users, which relates to statistical filters, but that's not a problem
   TZ> with IMAP per se, it's just a setting (nnimap-split-download-body)
   TZ> that you need to turn on.

This variable, nnimap-split-download-body, is NOT required if I work with
bogofilter?  Supposedly, this variable is expensive to use since it slows
things down considerably.

   >> ;; nnimap split rules
   >> 
   >> (setq nnimap-split-inbox "INBOX")
   >> (setq nnimap-split-crosspost nil)
   >> (setq nnimap-split-rule
   >> '(
   >> ; Emacs
   >> ("INBOX/Emacs/Help" 
   >> "^To:.*help-gnu-emacs\\|^Resent-From:.*help-gnu-emacs\\|^Cc:.*help-gnu-emacs")
   >> ("INBOX/Emacs/Gnus" 
   >> "^Resent-From:.*info-gnus-english\\|^To:.*info-gnus-english")
   >> ...
   >> ...
   >> ...
   >> ("INBOX/Misc"               "")
   >> ))
   >> 
   >> How do I convert from this to what I need to do to use bogofilter?

   TZ> ;; this is a very rough approximation, read the fancy splitting docs
   TZ> ;; if you want to know more
   TZ> (setq nnimap-split-fancy
   TZ>       '(|
   TZ>          (any "help-gnu-emacs" "INBOX/Emacs/Help")
   TZ>          (any "info-gnus-english" "INBOX/Emacs/Gnus")
   TZ>          ...
   TZ>          ...
   TZ>          ...
   TZ>          ...
   TZ>          (: spam-split)
   TZ>          ("INBOX/Misc")))

   TZ> (setq spam-use-bogofilter t)
   TZ> (spam-initialize)

Thanks for this conversion.  If I understand this correctly, it will first
filter that which it knows, then it will spam-split and file accordingly.
This means that I will only be spam filtering on those emails that I have not
explicitly filtered and filed, correct?  So it cannot check for spam in
mailing lists that have been spammed, right?

-- 
Jake Colman                     

Principia Partners LLC                    Phone: (201) 209-2467
Harborside Financial Center                 Fax: (201) 946-0320
902 Plaza Two                          E-mail: colman@ppllc.com
Jersey City, NJ 07311                 www.principiapartners.com

Re: Gnus and Outlook and spam?

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, colman@ppllc.com wrote:

>>>>>> "TZ" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
> 
>    TZ> Please point that out.  You may be referring to the note for
>    TZ> IMAP users, which relates to statistical filters, but that's
>    TZ> not a problem with IMAP per se, it's just a setting
>    TZ> (nnimap-split-download-body) that you need to turn on.
> 
> This variable, nnimap-split-download-body, is NOT required if I work
> with bogofilter?  Supposedly, this variable is expensive to use
> since it slows things down considerably.

Bogofilter needs to analyze the message body, so yes, you need to
download the body.  In fact, unless you specifically turn it off, any
statistical filter, e.g. spam-use-bogofilter, will turn body
downloading on.  You could, however, turn body downloading off if you
just want to analyze the message headers.  It's a user decision, in
the end.

>    TZ> ;; this is a very rough approximation, read the fancy
>    TZ> ;; splitting docs if you want to know more
>    TZ> (setq nnimap-split-fancy
>    TZ>       '(|
>    TZ>          (any "help-gnu-emacs" "INBOX/Emacs/Help")
>    TZ>          (any "info-gnus-english" "INBOX/Emacs/Gnus")
>    TZ>          ...
>    TZ>          ...
>    TZ>          ...
>    TZ>          ...
>    TZ>          (: spam-split)
>    TZ>          ("INBOX/Misc")))
> 
>    TZ> (setq spam-use-bogofilter t)
>    TZ> (spam-initialize)
> 
> Thanks for this conversion.  If I understand this correctly, it will
> first filter that which it knows, then it will spam-split and file
> accordingly.  This means that I will only be spam filtering on those
> emails that I have not explicitly filtered and filed, correct?  

Yes.

> So it cannot check for spam in mailing lists that have been spammed,
> right?

You can.  Let's say you have tests which are mild, mid-range, and
severe (examples of each are spam-use-blacklist, spam-use-bogofilter,
and spam-use-BBDB-exclusive respectively).  You can do:

(: spam-split 'spam-use-blacklist) ; mild test, will catch known spammers
(MAILING LIST CHECKS) ; put mailing lists with little spam here
(: spam-split 'spam-use-bogofilter) ; mid-range test, will catch suspected spam
(OTHER CHECKS) ; you can put mailing lists that get spam here
(: spam-split 'spam-use-BBDB-exclusive) ; severe test, everyone not in the BBDB is a spammer
"mail"

The exact structure is up to you.  Most people don't need more than 3
checks.  I personally do BBDB, blackholes, and regex (which catches
server-side SpamAssassin tagging).  My nnimap-split-fancy:

'(|
 (: gnus-registry-split-fancy-with-parent)
 (: spam-split 'spam-use-regex-headers)
 ;; lists are filtered here, all but one omitted for brevity
 (any "ding" "ding")
 ;; this will redo the regex-headers check, but that's a cheap test
 ;; so I don't mind
 (: spam-split) 
 "mail")

Ted

Re: Gnus and Outlook and spam?

[Danny Siu]

Jake Colman writes:

  TZ> Sure.  Check out the manual.  You can cooperate with anti-spam
  TZ> packages or use the spam-stat.el package to do all the stats inside
  TZ> Emacs.

  Jake> But spam-stats is not for nnimap, if I read it correctly.

I have been using spam-stats with nnimap and see no problem with it.  Ted
has gone a great job on spam support in guns.

  Jake> It sounds like I would want to install bogofilter and use the
  Jake> nnimap-split-fancy to pass the incoming email through bogofilter.

  Jake> I already have a long nnimap-split-rule variable definition.  Do I
  Jake> convert from nnimap-split-rule to nnimap-split-fancy?  Is that
  Jake> documented anywhere?

here is my spam, imap, mail split setup in .gnus.  Of course, I customized
'G C' my "spam" group and make sure "gnus-group-spam-classification-spam" is
set and "Spam Summary Exit Processor" is
"gnus-group-spam-exit-processor-stat" so that spam-stat is learning.

(require 'spam-stat)
(require 'spam)
(spam-stat-load)
(setq spam-use-stat t)

(setq nnmail-split-methods nil)
(setq nnimap-split-rule 'split-dannys-mail)

(defun danny-nnmail-spam-split ()
  (save-excursion
    (condition-case nil
        (let* ((s (spam-split)))
          (if s (list s) nil))
      (error nil))))

(defun split-dannys-mail ()
  "The way I want to split my mails."
  (goto-char (point-min))
  (cond

   ;; reply-to and follow-up mail should go with parent!
   ((danny-registry-split-fancy-with-parent))

   ;; remove spam
   ((danny-nnmail-spam-split))

   ;; Gnus
   ((re-search-forward "^\\(To\\|[Cc][Cc]\\):.*ding@\\(gnus.org\\|ifi.uio.no\\|hpc.uh.edu\\)" nil t)
    (list "GNUS"))

   ...
   ...))

-- 
Danny Siu

spam.el and IMAP (was: Gnus and Outlook and spam?)

[Reiner Steib]

On Thu, Oct 23 2003, Jake Colman wrote:

> I was using IMapAssassin, a script executed via cron to read my IMAP
> Inbox and pass its contents through SpamAssassin, but my IS group
> was not happy with its continuous use of resources.  Does gnus have
> anything I can use?  I am getting desperate!

Our computing center has set up bogofilter on the server (IMAP) [1].
Recognized spam goes to "Spam/spamblock", the rest thru the normal
filter rules or to INBOX.  Training on false positives or negatives is
done by copying or moving the article to "bayes/ham" or "bayes/spam".
A cron job on the server feeds those to bogofilter with the suitable
ham/spam options and deletes them.

With the following entries in `gnus-parameters', `spam.el' does most
of the job for me:

   ("nnimap.*:Spam/spamblock"
    (ham-process-destination . "nnimap+urz:bayes/ham")
    (spam-contents gnus-group-spam-classification-spam))
   ("nnimap.*:\\(INBOX\\|...\\)"
    (spam-process-destination . "nnimap+urz:bayes/spam")
    (spam-contents gnus-group-spam-classification-ham))

BTW, is there a simple way to tell `spam.el' to put ham articles from
"Spam/spamblock" to both, "bayes/ham" _and_ "INBOX"?  I.e. probably
first copy the article to the first group and then move it to the
second.

Bye, Reiner.

[1] In combination with DCC.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW   http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: spam.el and IMAP

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, 4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de wrote:

> BTW, is there a simple way to tell `spam.el' to put ham articles
> from "Spam/spamblock" to both, "bayes/ham" _and_ "INBOX"?
> I.e. probably first copy the article to the first group and then
> move it to the second.

I see no reason why we can't handle multiple groups for
{spam,ham}-process-destination.  I added the necessary code but it's
untested - please try it out and let me know how it works.

We used to use gnus-summary-move-article, now it's
gnus-summary-copy-article followed by gnus-summary-delete-article.
I assume an error in copy-article will abort the delete as well.

My topic and group parameters are very weird right now (see my
earlier post about auto-expire) and I was not able to test the
multiple groups code with group/topic parameters.

Ted

Re: spam.el and IMAP

[Reiner Steib]

On Fri, Oct 24 2003, Ted Zlatanov wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, 4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de wrote:
>
>> BTW, is there a simple way to tell `spam.el' to put ham articles
>> from "Spam/spamblock" to both, "bayes/ham" _and_ "INBOX"?
>> I.e. probably first copy the article to the first group and then
>> move it to the second.
>
> I see no reason why we can't handle multiple groups for
> {spam,ham}-process-destination.  I added the necessary code but it's
> untested - please try it out and let me know how it works.
>
> We used to use gnus-summary-move-article, now it's
> gnus-summary-copy-article followed by gnus-summary-delete-article.
> I assume an error in copy-article will abort the delete as well.

The patch leads to serious problems:

In my spam group, now the function
`spam-mark-spam-as-expired-and-move-routine' tries to *delete* all
spam-marked (`$') articles, rather than leaving them as expirable
(`E').  Luckily I had `gnus-novice-user' set to `t', so that
`gnus-summary-delete-article' asked me before deleting.

The next problem is, that there's something wrong with the new
multiple groups code.  I've customized the group,

,----
| [X] Destination for ham articles at summary exit from a spam
| group: [Value Menu] Move to multiple groups:
|     [INS] [DEL] Destination group: nnimap+urz:test1
|     [INS] [DEL] Destination group: nnimap+urz:test2
|     [INS]
| Where ham articles will go at summary exit from a spam group.
`----

... which lead to the following output in `G p':

,----
| ((ham-process-destination "nnimap+urz:test1" "nnimap+urz:test2")
|  (uidvalidity . "990116726")
|  (timestamp 16281 5192))
`----

BTW: Previously, I got dotted pairs, like...

  (ham-process-destination . "nnimap+urz:bayes/ham")

Is the new custom-type for multiple groups as intended?  BTW: Is `M-:
(gnus-group-find-parameter gnus-newsgroup-name
'ham-process-destination) RET' the correct way to check the parameter
inside the group?  (This returns nil now.)

Now, I marked one article as read (`r') using `d', then on group exit,
I edebugged `spam-ham-copy-or-move-routine' and found that `groups' is
`((nil))' leading to an error "Wrong type argument: stringp, (nil)"
one the last line in the following block of
`spam-ham-copy-or-move-routine':

    ;; now do the actual move
    (dolist (group groups)
      (when todo
	(dolist (article todo)
	  (when spam-mark-ham-unread-before-move-from-spam-group
	    (gnus-summary-mark-article article gnus-unread-mark))
	  (gnus-summary-set-process-mark article))
	(gnus-summary-copy-article nil group)))

> My topic and group parameters are very weird right now (see my
> earlier post about auto-expire) and I was not able to test the
> multiple groups code with group/topic parameters.

Maybe you should revert the change (multiple groups code), unless you
can fix it soon, because it may break existing setups and delete mails
(see above).  (If you can't test it, it might be better to post the
code here and wait for a positive reaction before committing it. ;-))

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW   http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: spam.el and IMAP

[Adrian Lanz]

On 24 Oct 2003, tzz@lifelogs.com wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, 4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de wrote:
>
>> BTW, is there a simple way to tell `spam.el' to put ham articles
>> from "Spam/spamblock" to both, "bayes/ham" _and_ "INBOX"?
>> I.e. probably first copy the article to the first group and then
>> move it to the second.
>
> I see no reason why we can't handle multiple groups for
> {spam,ham}-process-destination.  I added the necessary code but it's
> untested - please try it out and let me know how it works.
>
> We used to use gnus-summary-move-article, now it's
> gnus-summary-copy-article followed by gnus-summary-delete-article.
> I assume an error in copy-article will abort the delete as well.

Using spam.el WITHOUT IMAP: I don't like this! Now I get asked every
time I exit the summary buffer if I really want to delete the articles
processed by gnus-group-*-exit-processor-*.

(Furthermore - but this I will verify or falsify upon further testing
- the functions seem to delete the articles but not copy them!?)

Thanks, Adrian

Re: spam.el and IMAP

[Adrian Lanz]

On 24 Oct 2003, tzz@lifelogs.com wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, 4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de wrote:
>
>> BTW, is there a simple way to tell `spam.el' to put ham articles
>> from "Spam/spamblock" to both, "bayes/ham" _and_ "INBOX"?
>> I.e. probably first copy the article to the first group and then
>> move it to the second.
>
> I see no reason why we can't handle multiple groups for
> {spam,ham}-process-destination.  I added the necessary code but it's
> untested - please try it out and let me know how it works.
>
> We used to use gnus-summary-move-article, now it's
> gnus-summary-copy-article followed by gnus-summary-delete-article.
> I assume an error in copy-article will abort the delete as well.

I don't like the new implementation. A gnus-novice-user (which I
personally stay even I am Gnus user for years) gets now allways asked
if the articles really should be deleted. IMHO, the confitmation is
not needed in this case and also wrong/misleading. The articles have
been copied - normally to an other group - and don't "disappear for
ever from your life never to return".

An implemntation which gnus-summary-copies from the first to the
second last group in the list, and then gnus-summary-moves the last
group in the list would be nice.

Thanks, Adrian

Re: spam.el and IMAP

[Adrian Lanz]

On 24 Oct 2003, tzz@lifelogs.com wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, 4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de wrote:
>
>> BTW, is there a simple way to tell `spam.el' to put ham articles
>> from "Spam/spamblock" to both, "bayes/ham" _and_ "INBOX"?
>> I.e. probably first copy the article to the first group and then
>> move it to the second.
>
> I see no reason why we can't handle multiple groups for
> {spam,ham}-process-destination.  I added the necessary code but it's
> untested - please try it out and let me know how it works.
>
> We used to use gnus-summary-move-article, now it's
> gnus-summary-copy-article followed by gnus-summary-delete-article.
> I assume an error in copy-article will abort the delete as well.

Would be nice to have the first to the second last group in the list
gnus-summary-copied and the last group in the list
gnus-summary-moved. The now implemented cvs version asked the
gnus-novice-user (I suppose must of us) to confirm deletion of the
articles, wich IMHO is unneeded/misleadiding and wrong, as the
articles will not "disapear forever from your life, never come back"
(if everything went right, they just have been copied into an other
group).

Thanks, Adrian

Re: spam.el and IMAP

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, lanz@fowi.ethz.ch wrote:

> Would be nice to have the first to the second last group in the list
> gnus-summary-copied and the last group in the list
> gnus-summary-moved. The now implemented cvs version asked the
> gnus-novice-user (I suppose must of us) to confirm deletion of the
> articles, wich IMHO is unneeded/misleadiding and wrong, as the
> articles will not "disapear forever from your life, never come back"
> (if everything went right, they just have been copied into an other
> group).

Sorry about the inconvenience, the current implementation should be
OK.  I'll refine it further to do a copy, then move for the last
group, but that's not as simple as it seems (what if the list of
groups ends with an invalid entry?) so I couldn't get it done in time
and instead put out a fix that works, although it's not perfect.

Ted

Re: spam.el and IMAP

[Adrian Lanz]

On 24 Oct 2003, tzz@lifelogs.com wrote:

> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, 4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de wrote:
>
>> BTW, is there a simple way to tell `spam.el' to put ham articles
>> from "Spam/spamblock" to both, "bayes/ham" _and_ "INBOX"?
>> I.e. probably first copy the article to the first group and then
>> move it to the second.
>
> I see no reason why we can't handle multiple groups for
> {spam,ham}-process-destination.  I added the necessary code but it's
> untested - please try it out and let me know how it works.
>
> We used to use gnus-summary-move-article, now it's
> gnus-summary-copy-article followed by gnus-summary-delete-article.
> I assume an error in copy-article will abort the delete as well.

Better gnus-summary-copy to the first to second last group in the list
and then gnus-summary-move to the last group in the list. Otherwise we
get (like in the current cvs version) an unnecessary and annoying
confirmation request (for the gnus-novice-user, which I personally
stay even if I use Gnus for several years now), which is unneeded and
wrong/misleading in this case as the article will NOT "disappear
forever from your life, never to return".

Thanks, Adrian