Misterious article disappearances

Misterious article disappearances

[Toni Drabik]

Back in September I noticed that some news articles are ``disappearing''
(well, not exactly disappearing, but more on that later) in totally random
and unreproducible fashion. It happens for almost two months now and it
starts to annoy the hell out of me.

It usually goes like this: after pressing `g' in *Group* buffer, there are,
for example, three articles in hr.comp.advocacy:

         3: hr.comp.advocacy

But, after entering that group, there are only *two* articles in *Summary*
buffer. Exiting group (without reading those articles) changes the line in
*Summary* buffer to:

         2: hr.comp.advocacy

Doing `C-u 3 g' on it, again gives *Summary* buffer with only two articles
(the same two, that are shown upon first entering).

However, if I restart Gnus and then do `C-u 3 g' on offending group, I get
*Summary* with *three* (!!) articles -- two of them are those I have already
seen on previous attempts and the third one is a ``new'' one.

Main problem in all this is that I'm unable to reproduce the problem. It
happens at random, in random and completely unrelated groups (please note
that only *news*groups are affected) -- and I cannot determine what's the
reason for it. :-(

To avoid possibility that those ``disappearances'' are caused by scoring, I
turned off my scoring completely (and moved my score files to another place).

My first thought was that something is wrong with my news server (which
wouldn't be surprising at all), but people with other news readers have no
complaints. And there is the fact that restarting Gnus obviously ``fixes''
the problem, for a short time at least.

I also examined my setup, but I couldn't find anything that could be cause
of this strange behavior.

I think that those disappearances happen more often in last few days, but
that may be my overactive imagination.

If all of this sounds like a late Halloween story -- I'm sorry, but it
really happens. :-( Did anyone else noticed such (mis)behavior? Any
suggestions about it?

-- 
Toni Drabik <tdrabik@public.srce.hr>
Warning: This article may be fatal if swallowed.

Re: Misterious article disappearances

[Jody M. Klymak]

Hi Toni,

I get the same thing in nnimap groups.  The articles aren't
dissappearing - they were never there (a fact I checked w/ another
mail client).  I think that Gnus is simply making an educated guess
when it compiles the Group Buffer, and sometimes it overestimates.  I
don't knwo why, but I do know that what shows in the Summary Buffer is
correct and what shows in the Group buffer is sometimes a bit off.

I hope this helps.  I haven't really worried about it since I checked
this behaviour.

Cheers,  Jody

>>>>> "Toni" == Toni Drabik <tdrabik@public.srce.hr> writes:

    Toni> Back in September I noticed that some news articles are
    Toni> ``disappearing'' (well, not exactly disappearing, but more
    Toni> on that later) in totally random and unreproducible
    Toni> fashion. It happens for almost two months now and it starts
    Toni> to annoy the hell out of me.

    Toni> It usually goes like this: after pressing `g' in *Group*
    Toni> buffer, there are, for example, three articles in
    Toni> hr.comp.advocacy:

    Toni>          3: hr.comp.advocacy

    Toni> But, after entering that group, there are only *two*
    Toni> articles in *Summary* buffer. Exiting group (without reading
    Toni> those articles) changes the line in *Summary* buffer to:

    Toni>          2: hr.comp.advocacy

    Toni> Doing `C-u 3 g' on it, again gives *Summary* buffer with
    Toni> only two articles (the same two, that are shown upon first
    Toni> entering).

    Toni> However, if I restart Gnus and then do `C-u 3 g' on
    Toni> offending group, I get *Summary* with *three* (!!) articles
    Toni> -- two of them are those I have already seen on previous
    Toni> attempts and the third one is a ``new'' one.

    Toni> Main problem in all this is that I'm unable to reproduce the
    Toni> problem. It happens at random, in random and completely
    Toni> unrelated groups (please note that only *news*groups are
    Toni> affected) -- and I cannot determine what's the reason for
    Toni> it. :-(

    Toni> To avoid possibility that those ``disappearances'' are
    Toni> caused by scoring, I turned off my scoring completely (and
    Toni> moved my score files to another place).

    Toni> My first thought was that something is wrong with my news
    Toni> server (which wouldn't be surprising at all), but people
    Toni> with other news readers have no complaints. And there is the
    Toni> fact that restarting Gnus obviously ``fixes'' the problem,
    Toni> for a short time at least.

    Toni> I also examined my setup, but I couldn't find anything that
    Toni> could be cause of this strange behavior.

    Toni> I think that those disappearances happen more often in last
    Toni> few days, but that may be my overactive imagination.

    Toni> If all of this sounds like a late Halloween story -- I'm
    Toni> sorry, but it really happens. :-( Did anyone else noticed
    Toni> such (mis)behavior? Any suggestions about it?

    Toni> -- Toni Drabik <tdrabik@public.srce.hr> Warning: This
    Toni> article may be fatal if swallowed.

-- 
Jody Klymak                         APL/School of Oceanography,
Doctoral Candidate                  University of Washington
mailto:jklymak@apl.washington.edu   (206)-685-9080
http://www.ocean.washington.edu/people/grads/jklymak/

Re: Misterious article disappearances

[Toni Drabik]

Toni Drabik <tdrabik@public.srce.hr> writes:

[...]

I forgot:

FWIW, I'm using Pterodactyl Gnus 0.98 on XEmacs 20.4 on Solaris with direct
access to NNTP server (no agentizing). When I first noticed described
problem, I was using whatever pgnus was latest back then (0.97, I believe)
on the same environment.

(BTW, I just noticed that I've mispelled ``mysterious'' on the subject
line... Oh, well...)

-- 
Toni Drabik <tdrabik@public.srce.hr>
Warning: This article may be fatal if swallowed.

Re: Misterious article disappearances

[Toni Drabik]

"Jody M. Klymak" <jklymak@apl.washington.edu> writes:

> Hi Toni,
> 
> I get the same thing in nnimap groups. The articles aren't dissappearing -
> they were never there (a fact I checked w/ another mail client). I think
> that Gnus is simply making an educated guess when it compiles the Group
> Buffer, and sometimes it overestimates. I

I was aware of that. But, I'm afraid (in fact, I'm completely sure) that
this is not the case here.

For example, when I post a followup in some group with no unread articles,
then exit to *Group* buffer, then press `g', and then try to enter that
group, Gnus just changes line

            1: hr.comp.advocacy

to:

            0: hr.comp.advocacy

Subsequent repeated attemptes to enter that group by `C-u 1 g' result in
``Can't select group'' message. Checking with another news reader shows that 
my article is indeed posted. But I can't see it in Gnus, unless I restart
it, and do `C-u 1 g' on group after that.

Again -- this doesn't happen every time, not only in hr.comp.advocacy and
not only to my articles. This isq just an example which helped me to notice
this kind of behavior (since I'm positive that there should be something in
offending group, and Gnus refuses to admit it again and again).

-- 
Toni Drabik <tdrabik@public.srce.hr>
Warning: This article may be fatal if swallowed.

Re: Misterious article disappearances

[piet]

I hav seen the same, and I noticed one time, that in the group with the
mysterious count there was an article that had followups in a different
newsgroup, so I guessed that it might have been caused by gnus also
counting the followups, without them actually appearing in the group.
-- 
Piet van Oostrum <piet@cs.uu.nl>
URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP]
Private email: Piet.van.Oostrum@gironet.nl

Re: Misterious article disappearances

[Michael Welsh Duggan]

Toni Drabik <tdrabik@public.srce.hr> writes:

> It usually goes like this: after pressing `g' in *Group* buffer, there are,
> for example, three articles in hr.comp.advocacy:
> 
>          3: hr.comp.advocacy
> 
> But, after entering that group, there are only *two* articles in *Summary*
> buffer. Exiting group (without reading those articles) changes the line in
> *Summary* buffer to:
> 
>          2: hr.comp.advocacy
> 
> Doing `C-u 3 g' on it, again gives *Summary* buffer with only two articles
> (the same two, that are shown upon first entering).

This can happen if articles which existed during the first check are
gone by the time you enter the group.  This can be due to article
expiry on the server, or because of message cancels.

I'm not sure whether crossposts would do it.  (Gnus saying, "Oh, now
that I've looked at the summary, I see that he's already read that
message in another group.)

-- 
Michael Duggan
(md5i@cs.cmu.edu)

Re: Misterious article disappearances

[Toni Drabik]

Michael Welsh Duggan <md5i@cs.cmu.edu> writes:

[...]

> > Doing `C-u 3 g' on it, again gives *Summary* buffer with only two articles
> > (the same two, that are shown upon first entering).
> 
> This can happen if articles which existed during the first check are gone
> by the time you enter the group. This can be due to article expiry on the
> server, or because of message cancels.

I know, but that's not the cause...


> I'm not sure whether crossposts would do it. (Gnus saying, "Oh, now that
> I've looked at the summary, I see that he's already read that message in
> another group.)

...and neither are crossposts.

I'll switch to another news server in a day or two and then I'll see if the
problem persists.


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