* viewing raw article
@ 2003-05-28 17:41 Vladimir Volovich
2003-05-28 19:11 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-06-12 22:43 ` Dave Love
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Vladimir Volovich @ 2003-05-28 17:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
Hi!
when i view the raw article using C-u g, gnus used to show 8-bit
characters as \200, etc, but it had changed recently and gnus now
shows such characters as eight-bit-graphic charset which appears to
use the iso8859-1 encoded font.
was such a change intensional? it seems that it is better to show raw
octets like \200 than latin1 chars in raw articles, or can i tell
emacs to show eight-bit-graphic characters as \200 etc?
Best,
v.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: viewing raw article
2003-05-28 17:41 viewing raw article Vladimir Volovich
@ 2003-05-28 19:11 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-06-12 22:43 ` Dave Love
2003-06-12 22:43 ` Dave Love
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Kai Großjohann @ 2003-05-28 19:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vsu.ru> writes:
> when i view the raw article using C-u g, gnus used to show 8-bit
> characters as \200, etc, but it had changed recently and gnus now
> shows such characters as eight-bit-graphic charset which appears to
> use the iso8859-1 encoded font.
>
> was such a change intensional? it seems that it is better to show raw
> octets like \200 than latin1 chars in raw articles, or can i tell
> emacs to show eight-bit-graphic characters as \200 etc?
The change was intentional; it enables some people to forget that
there are multiple languages in the world. For them, Emacs just
sees random bytes and interprets them in the locale. I think they
call this eight bit cleanness or something like that. Shudder.
I have the following bit of Lisp:
;; Display characters from the charsets `eight-bit-control' and
;; `eight-bit-graphic' as octal numbers in `font-lock-warning-face'
(defun egoge-display-eight-bit-as-octal (&optional face)
(let ((face-offset (if face
(* (face-id face)
(expt 2 19))
0))
char)
(dotimes (i 128)
(setq char (+ i 128))
(aset standard-display-table char
(vconcat (mapcar (lambda (c)
(+ face-offset c))
(format "\\%o" char)))))))
(eval-after-load "font-lock"
'(egoge-display-eight-bit-as-octal 'font-lock-warning-face))
Snarfed from... Hm. Who is egoge? Oliver Scholz, it seems. If it
was somebody else, please accept my apologies.
--
This line is not blank.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: viewing raw article
2003-05-28 19:11 ` Kai Großjohann
@ 2003-06-12 22:43 ` Dave Love
2003-06-13 14:29 ` Kai Großjohann
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Dave Love @ 2003-06-12 22:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: ding
kai.grossjohann@gmx.net (Kai Großjohann) writes:
> The change was intentional;
What change was that?
> it enables some people to forget that
> there are multiple languages in the world. For them, Emacs just
> sees random bytes and interprets them in the locale.
I don't think that's what's happening. I assume this is eight-bit in
a multibyte buffer, not unibyte mode. (Using the display table like
that isn't actually necessary in unibyte mode anyhow.)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: viewing raw article
2003-06-12 22:43 ` Dave Love
@ 2003-06-13 14:29 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-06-17 22:10 ` Dave Love
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Kai Großjohann @ 2003-06-13 14:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
Dave Love <d.love@dl.ac.uk> writes:
> kai.grossjohann@gmx.net (Kai Großjohann) writes:
>
>> The change was intentional;
>
> What change was that?
It used to be that people saw \234 for non-ascii characters where
Emacs didn't know which charset they came from. Now Emacs will
(often) display a glyph that looks like a character from their native
charset.
The display of eight-bit-graphic was changed.
>> it enables some people to forget that
>> there are multiple languages in the world. For them, Emacs just
>> sees random bytes and interprets them in the locale.
>
> I don't think that's what's happening. I assume this is eight-bit in
> a multibyte buffer, not unibyte mode. (Using the display table like
> that isn't actually necessary in unibyte mode anyhow.)
I wasn't talking about unibyte or multibyte buffers, I was talking
about something that's at a higher level of abstraction.
--
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: viewing raw article
2003-06-13 14:29 ` Kai Großjohann
@ 2003-06-17 22:10 ` Dave Love
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Dave Love @ 2003-06-17 22:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
kai.grossjohann@gmx.net (Kai Großjohann) writes:
> It used to be that people saw \234 for non-ascii characters where
> Emacs didn't know which charset they came from.
?? Emacs can't not know what charset such characters are from.
That's eight-bit-control (in Emacs 21).
> Now Emacs will (often) display a glyph that looks like a character
> from their native charset.
The standard display table has always (as far as I know) displayed
such things the same way. They will be rendered with whatever glyphs
are at that position in the default font.
> The display of eight-bit-graphic was changed.
When and where? That's what we wanted, but by default
(aref standard-display-table 255)
=> [255]
in all versions at least >= 20.7 as far as I can tell.
> I wasn't talking about unibyte or multibyte buffers, I was talking
> about something that's at a higher level of abstraction.
I don't understand that. What do you mean?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: viewing raw article
2003-05-28 17:41 viewing raw article Vladimir Volovich
2003-05-28 19:11 ` Kai Großjohann
@ 2003-06-12 22:43 ` Dave Love
2003-06-13 9:49 ` Vladimir Volovich
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Dave Love @ 2003-06-12 22:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: ding
Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vsu.ru> writes:
> Hi!
>
> when i view the raw article using C-u g, gnus used to show 8-bit
> characters as \200, etc, but it had changed recently and gnus now
> shows such characters as eight-bit-graphic charset which appears to
> use the iso8859-1 encoded font.
Do you really mean \200? That's not in 8859-1 or eight-bit-graphic,
though I suppose such a font might have a glyph there. Unless you
change the display table, it's displayed in octal.
eight-bit-graphic (\240-\377) is displayed with glyphs from your
default font. This is bogus, but we couldn't persuade rms to
change it a while back. (That's nothing to do with Gnus.)
I recommend:
(when default-enable-multibyte-characters
(dotimes (i 128)
(aset standard-display-table (+ 128 i) nil)))
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: viewing raw article
2003-06-12 22:43 ` Dave Love
@ 2003-06-13 9:49 ` Vladimir Volovich
2003-06-17 22:15 ` Dave Love
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Vladimir Volovich @ 2003-06-13 9:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: ding
"DL" == Dave Love writes:
>> when i view the raw article using C-u g, gnus used to show 8-bit
>> characters as \200, etc, but it had changed recently and gnus now
>> shows such characters as eight-bit-graphic charset which appears
>> to use the iso8859-1 encoded font.
DL> Do you really mean \200? That's not in 8859-1 or
DL> eight-bit-graphic, though I suppose such a font might have a
DL> glyph there. Unless you change the display table, it's displayed
DL> in octal.
an article may include character \200 (128) in it's body: some
character sets, not based on iso8859-* (e.g. cp866, koi8-r, etc), do
contain characters in the range \200-\237, so \200 is also possible
in the messages, and gnus used to show them as \200.
though, characters in the range \240-\377 occur more often, and these
were previously displayed as e.g. \240, but now they are shown as
latin1 characters when previewing raw article, which is bogus.
DL> eight-bit-graphic (\240-\377) is displayed with glyphs from your
DL> default font. This is bogus, but we couldn't persuade rms to
DL> change it a while back. (That's nothing to do with Gnus.)
yes, this is very confusing and bogus.
DL> (when default-enable-multibyte-characters (dotimes (i 128) (aset
DL> standard-display-table (+ 128 i) nil)))
hm - this didn't change the way 8-bit characters are shown in raw
articles...
Best,
v.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: viewing raw article
2003-06-13 9:49 ` Vladimir Volovich
@ 2003-06-17 22:15 ` Dave Love
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Dave Love @ 2003-06-17 22:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: ding
Vladimir Volovich <vvv@vsu.ru> writes:
> an article may include character \200 (128) in it's body: some
> character sets, not based on iso8859-* (e.g. cp866, koi8-r, etc), do
> contain characters in the range \200-\237, so \200 is also possible
> in the messages,
Of course, but how are they being displayed as 8859-1, since they're
not 8859-1 characters?
> and gnus used to show them as \200.
It still does for me, and I'd be surprised to see eight-bit-control
displayed another way.
> though, characters in the range \240-\377 occur more often, and these
> were previously displayed as e.g. \240, but now they are shown as
> latin1 characters when previewing raw article, which is bogus.
Assuming you're in a Russian locale, it's pretty odd if they are
displayed as 8859-1.
> hm - this didn't change the way 8-bit characters are shown in raw
> articles...
It seems to me that you are picking up some customization. I don't
see anything in Gnus controlling such things (except in summary
lines).
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2003-06-17 22:15 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
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2003-05-28 17:41 viewing raw article Vladimir Volovich
2003-05-28 19:11 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-06-12 22:43 ` Dave Love
2003-06-13 14:29 ` Kai Großjohann
2003-06-17 22:10 ` Dave Love
2003-06-12 22:43 ` Dave Love
2003-06-13 9:49 ` Vladimir Volovich
2003-06-17 22:15 ` Dave Love
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