* No Gnus todo item @ 2003-05-08 11:07 Simon Josefsson 2003-05-08 12:03 ` Reiner Steib 2003-05-08 16:21 ` Bill White 0 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Simon Josefsson @ 2003-05-08 11:07 UTC (permalink / raw) A thread on gnu.emacs.gnus reminded me of a simple thing that could be useful to do in No Gnus: Pressing M-x gnus RET should load gnus, load .newsrc.eld etc, and display the group buffer. This shouldn't take longer than 5s. This is in line with the GUI design criteria "minimize time the user can't access the user interface". Fetching new mail, and updating the article counts should be done after pressing 'g'. Implementing asynchronous updating of article counts while you browse the group buffer earns bonus points. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: No Gnus todo item 2003-05-08 11:07 No Gnus todo item Simon Josefsson @ 2003-05-08 12:03 ` Reiner Steib 2003-05-08 13:26 ` Simon Josefsson 2003-05-13 18:02 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2003-05-08 16:21 ` Bill White 1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Reiner Steib @ 2003-05-08 12:03 UTC (permalink / raw) On Thu, May 08 2003, Simon Josefsson wrote: > A thread on gnu.emacs.gnus reminded me of a simple thing that could be > useful to do in No Gnus: What is the policy for the `todo' file included in CVS (an the tar-ball)? The last addition is dated 2002/02/15. What's the story? I think your and many other suggestions [1] should be written there. Else most of them will probably be forgotten after a while. Bye, Reiner. [1] E.g. from the thread "Ideas for .no Gnus", <news:u8ytpvybg.fsf@hschmi22.userfqdn.rz-online.de>. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- PGP key available via WWW http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: No Gnus todo item 2003-05-08 12:03 ` Reiner Steib @ 2003-05-08 13:26 ` Simon Josefsson 2003-05-08 16:24 ` Bill White 2003-05-09 7:08 ` Kai Großjohann 2003-05-13 18:02 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Simon Josefsson @ 2003-05-08 13:26 UTC (permalink / raw) Reiner Steib <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> writes: > What is the policy for the `todo' file included in CVS (an the > tar-ball)? The last addition is dated 2002/02/15. What's the story? > > I think your and many other suggestions [1] should be written there. > Else most of them will probably be forgotten after a while. A distributed writable nntodo group seems like a more Gnusish approach, then each todo item can include discussion too. This seems similar to adding some meta-data on top of a nntp group to make it more useful as a bug tracking system. But someone would have to implement this todo/bts first. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: No Gnus todo item 2003-05-08 13:26 ` Simon Josefsson @ 2003-05-08 16:24 ` Bill White 2003-05-09 7:08 ` Kai Großjohann 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Bill White @ 2003-05-08 16:24 UTC (permalink / raw) On Thu May 08 2003 at 08:26, Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> said: > Reiner Steib <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> writes: > >> What is the policy for the `todo' file included in CVS (an the >> tar-ball)? The last addition is dated 2002/02/15. What's the story? >> >> I think your and many other suggestions [1] should be written >> there. Else most of them will probably be forgotten after a while. > > A distributed writable nntodo group seems like a more Gnusish > approach, then each todo item can include discussion too. That would be really nifty, and a good reason to start using nntodo (isn't that one of Kai's things?). How would the group be distributed? (I'm still not hip to some of this lingo.) Cheers - bw -- Bill White . billw@wolfram.com . http://members.wri.com/billw "No ma'am, we're musicians." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: No Gnus todo item 2003-05-08 13:26 ` Simon Josefsson 2003-05-08 16:24 ` Bill White @ 2003-05-09 7:08 ` Kai Großjohann 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Kai Großjohann @ 2003-05-09 7:08 UTC (permalink / raw) Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> writes: > Reiner Steib <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> writes: > >> What is the policy for the `todo' file included in CVS (an the >> tar-ball)? The last addition is dated 2002/02/15. What's the story? >> >> I think your and many other suggestions [1] should be written there. >> Else most of them will probably be forgotten after a while. > > A distributed writable nntodo group seems like a more Gnusish > approach, then each todo item can include discussion too. My suggestion is to add "distributed writable nntodo" to the existing todo file, along with the other items. This has the advantage that keeping the todo list can be done before executing any other todo items :-) -- file-error; Data: (Opening input file no such file or directory ~/.signature) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: No Gnus todo item 2003-05-08 12:03 ` Reiner Steib 2003-05-08 13:26 ` Simon Josefsson @ 2003-05-13 18:02 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 2003-05-13 18:02 UTC (permalink / raw) Reiner Steib <4.uce.03.r.s@nurfuerspam.de> writes: > I think your and many other suggestions [1] should be written there. > Else most of them will probably be forgotten after a while. Good ideas have a tendency to pop up after a while if we forget them, in my experience. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: No Gnus todo item 2003-05-08 11:07 No Gnus todo item Simon Josefsson 2003-05-08 12:03 ` Reiner Steib @ 2003-05-08 16:21 ` Bill White 2003-05-08 17:14 ` Ted Zlatanov 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Bill White @ 2003-05-08 16:21 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding On Thu May 08 2003 at 06:07, Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> said: > Pressing M-x gnus RET should load gnus, load .newsrc.eld etc, and > display the group buffer. This shouldn't take longer than 5s. This > is in line with the GUI design criteria "minimize time the user can't > access the user interface". > > Fetching new mail, and updating the article counts should be done > after pressing 'g'. That's an excellent idea! Occasionally, I get into a situation where I need to load without downloading because I've screwed something up, so I have to edit mail-sources temporarily to keep new mail out of the mess. Cheers - bw -- Bill White . billw@wolfram.com . http://members.wri.com/billw "No ma'am, we're musicians." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: No Gnus todo item 2003-05-08 16:21 ` Bill White @ 2003-05-08 17:14 ` Ted Zlatanov 2003-05-08 17:29 ` Simon Josefsson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2003-05-08 17:14 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Simon Josefsson, ding On Thu, 08 May 2003, billw@wolfram.com wrote: > On Thu May 08 2003 at 06:07, Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> said: > >> Pressing M-x gnus RET should load gnus, load .newsrc.eld etc, and >> display the group buffer. This shouldn't take longer than 5s. >> This is in line with the GUI design criteria "minimize time the >> user can't access the user interface". >> >> Fetching new mail, and updating the article counts should be done >> after pressing 'g'. > > That's an excellent idea! Occasionally, I get into a situation > where I need to load without downloading because I've screwed > something up, so I have to edit mail-sources temporarily to keep new > mail out of the mess. But that's confusing to new users, every MUA I have used will load new mail at startup. May I suggest either a variable like gnus-startup-without-scan or a function gnus-fast? The function seems the better solution. You startup gnus with emacs -f gnus-fast and then `g' is still bound to the gnus function so things work like they always have. In fact, it seems like the gnus function already has a dont-connect parameter. Is that not useful? Thanks Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: No Gnus todo item 2003-05-08 17:14 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2003-05-08 17:29 ` Simon Josefsson 2003-05-08 18:56 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Simon Josefsson @ 2003-05-08 17:29 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: > On Thu, 08 May 2003, billw@wolfram.com wrote: >> On Thu May 08 2003 at 06:07, Simon Josefsson <jas@extundo.com> said: >> >>> Pressing M-x gnus RET should load gnus, load .newsrc.eld etc, and >>> display the group buffer. This shouldn't take longer than 5s. >>> This is in line with the GUI design criteria "minimize time the >>> user can't access the user interface". >>> >>> Fetching new mail, and updating the article counts should be done >>> after pressing 'g'. >> >> That's an excellent idea! Occasionally, I get into a situation >> where I need to load without downloading because I've screwed >> something up, so I have to edit mail-sources temporarily to keep new >> mail out of the mess. > > But that's confusing to new users, every MUA I have used will load new > mail at startup. Before displaying the user interface? Most MUAs I recall using (Mozilla, Evolution, Kmail, Outlook, Pine) display the GUI immediately and then some of them (exceptions are Pine and Outlook, as far as I can recall) will continue to update the message counts in the background. > May I suggest either a variable like gnus-startup-without-scan or a > function gnus-fast? The function seems the better solution. You > startup gnus with emacs -f gnus-fast and then `g' is still bound to > the gnus function so things work like they always have. > > In fact, it seems like the gnus function already has a dont-connect > parameter. Is that not useful? It is, and it may be tested by using M-x gnus-no-server RET or M-x gnus-unplugged RET depending on preference. I'm talking about the default behavior. Perhaps the idea doesn't make sense unless the asynchronous update of read counts is implemented. If so, the consider that implemented too, when thinking about the feature. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: No Gnus todo item 2003-05-08 17:29 ` Simon Josefsson @ 2003-05-08 18:56 ` Ted Zlatanov 2003-05-08 22:48 ` Simon Josefsson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2003-05-08 18:56 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding On Thu, 08 May 2003, jas@extundo.com wrote: > Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: > >> But that's confusing to new users, every MUA I have used will load >> new mail at startup. > > Before displaying the user interface? Most MUAs I recall using > (Mozilla, Evolution, Kmail, Outlook, Pine) display the GUI > immediately and then some of them (exceptions are Pine and Outlook, > as far as I can recall) will continue to update the message counts > in the background. What you suggest would be nice, but Gnus does display a read-only interface while fetching the mail. You would like it to be interactive, I think - which is a good idea. >> May I suggest either a variable like gnus-startup-without-scan or a >> function gnus-fast? The function seems the better solution. You >> startup gnus with emacs -f gnus-fast and then `g' is still bound to >> the gnus function so things work like they always have. >> >> In fact, it seems like the gnus function already has a dont-connect >> parameter. Is that not useful? > > It is, and it may be tested by using M-x gnus-no-server RET or M-x > gnus-unplugged RET depending on preference. I'm talking about the > default behavior. > > Perhaps the idea doesn't make sense unless the asynchronous update > of read counts is implemented. If so, the consider that implemented > too, when thinking about the feature. I think we'd need asynchronous mail fetching and article count updates to do what you want. It's a very good goal, but it might require a major rewrite of Gnus. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: No Gnus todo item 2003-05-08 18:56 ` Ted Zlatanov @ 2003-05-08 22:48 ` Simon Josefsson 2003-05-09 16:32 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Simon Josefsson @ 2003-05-08 22:48 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: >>> May I suggest either a variable like gnus-startup-without-scan or a >>> function gnus-fast? The function seems the better solution. You >>> startup gnus with emacs -f gnus-fast and then `g' is still bound to >>> the gnus function so things work like they always have. >>> >>> In fact, it seems like the gnus function already has a dont-connect >>> parameter. Is that not useful? >> >> It is, and it may be tested by using M-x gnus-no-server RET or M-x >> gnus-unplugged RET depending on preference. I'm talking about the >> default behavior. >> >> Perhaps the idea doesn't make sense unless the asynchronous update >> of read counts is implemented. If so, the consider that implemented >> too, when thinking about the feature. > > I think we'd need asynchronous mail fetching and article count > updates to do what you want. It's a very good goal, but it might > require a major rewrite of Gnus. I don't think it is requires much work, it should be possible to do even without touching existing code, I think. A somewhat IMAP specific incarnation of this idea would run a function via the idle timer, have it pick one group, send off a few commands to the server to request information, and return. Takes a few milliseconds, max. When it is invoked the next time, it looks if it has received outstanding requests, if so, it parses them and frob a few Gnus data structure, redraws one line of the group buffer, and returns. This goes on until all groups are updated. I would agree that doing this for mail-sources and client-side filtering is harder, but the above approach should work for nnml, nnfolder, nntp, nnmaildir and nnimap. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: No Gnus todo item 2003-05-08 22:48 ` Simon Josefsson @ 2003-05-09 16:32 ` Ted Zlatanov 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Ted Zlatanov @ 2003-05-09 16:32 UTC (permalink / raw) On Fri, 09 May 2003, jas@extundo.com wrote: > Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes: >> I think we'd need asynchronous mail fetching and article count >> updates to do what you want. It's a very good goal, but it might >> require a major rewrite of Gnus. > > I don't think it is requires much work, it should be possible to do > even without touching existing code, I think. Simon, you would certainly know more about this than me. My impression was that there are a lot of global variables that relate to the "current" newsgroup, which might be a problem if we try to be asynchronous. I hope you find the time to implement this. Ted ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2003-05-13 18:02 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 12+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2003-05-08 11:07 No Gnus todo item Simon Josefsson 2003-05-08 12:03 ` Reiner Steib 2003-05-08 13:26 ` Simon Josefsson 2003-05-08 16:24 ` Bill White 2003-05-09 7:08 ` Kai Großjohann 2003-05-13 18:02 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 2003-05-08 16:21 ` Bill White 2003-05-08 17:14 ` Ted Zlatanov 2003-05-08 17:29 ` Simon Josefsson 2003-05-08 18:56 ` Ted Zlatanov 2003-05-08 22:48 ` Simon Josefsson 2003-05-09 16:32 ` Ted Zlatanov
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