Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Julien Danjou]

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Hi,

Anyone having some issues using the IMAP server from Zimbra with Gnus?

It's totally unreliable here. It misses new mails, and sometimes show
weird new messages number. Pressing M-g on a group resolve the issue,
but basically 'g' is unreliable.

Not sure how to dig this out right now, so asking first. :)

-- 
Julien Danjou

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Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Alberto Luaces]

Julien Danjou writes:

> Hi,
>
> Anyone having some issues using the IMAP server from Zimbra with Gnus?
>

I am not, but I am using the version bundled with emacs 23.3.

>
> It's totally unreliable here. It misses new mails, and sometimes show
> weird new messages number. Pressing M-g on a group resolve the issue,
> but basically 'g' is unreliable.
>
> Not sure how to dig this out right now, so asking first. :)

-- 
Alberto

Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Julien Danjou]

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On Tue, Oct 04 2011, Alberto Luaces wrote:

>> Anyone having some issues using the IMAP server from Zimbra with Gnus?
>>
>
> I am not, but I am using the version bundled with emacs 23.3.

That does not count then. I'm using git version. :)

-- 
Julien Danjou

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Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[David Engster]

Julien Danjou writes:
> Anyone having some issues using the IMAP server from Zimbra with Gnus?
>
> It's totally unreliable here. It misses new mails, and sometimes show
> weird new messages number. Pressing M-g on a group resolve the issue,
> but basically 'g' is unreliable.
>
> Not sure how to dig this out right now, so asking first. :)

I remember Zimbra popping up here before, but mainly because of problems
with the 'unread' count. It seems Zimbra produces very weird and LARGE
article numbers (which is perfectly legal, as long as they are
ascending). But I think Lars tested Zimbra when he did the nnimap
rewrite?

-David

Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Stig Sandbeck Mathisen]

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Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Anyone having some issues using the IMAP server from Zimbra with Gnus?

Yup, lots of strange issues. Including things like this:

,----
| 980 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '
| 981 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '
| 982 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '
| *** Fatal error: A TLS packet with unexpected length was received.
| *** Server has terminated the connection abnormally.
| 
| Process *nnimap*<4> exited abnormally with code 1
`----


-- 
Stig Sandbeck Mathisen
                         Any sufficiently advanced incompetence
                         is indistinguishable from malice

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Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Paulo J. Matos]

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Anyone having some issues using the IMAP server from Zimbra with Gnus?
>
> It's totally unreliable here. It misses new mails, and sometimes show
> weird new messages number. Pressing M-g on a group resolve the issue,
> but basically 'g' is unreliable.
>
> Not sure how to dig this out right now, so asking first. :)

I have the same problem with servage. Something which I coincidentally
posted on gnus.user a couple of hours ago.

From
(setq imap-log t)

I can see that the command being sent look ok. Unfortunately the log
doesn't show the server reply. 

I wonder if it is possible to obtain that.

I am using No Gnus v0.18.

-- 
PMatos

Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Julien Danjou]

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On Tue, Oct 04 2011, Stig Sandbeck Mathisen wrote:

> Yup, lots of strange issues. Including things like this:
>
> ,----
> | 980 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '
> | 981 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '
> | 982 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '

I got this too. Is there a way to tell Gnus to print what it does?
(Yes I'm asking out loud to Lars, don't really have time to dig into
this right now. :)

-- 
Julien Danjou

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Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Paulo J. Matos]

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> On Tue, Oct 04 2011, Stig Sandbeck Mathisen wrote:
>
>> Yup, lots of strange issues. Including things like this:
>>
>> ,----
>> | 980 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '
>> | 981 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '
>> | 982 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '
>
> I got this too. Is there a way to tell Gnus to print what it does?
> (Yes I'm asking out loud to Lars, don't really have time to dig into
> this right now. :)

How do you get that? That seems to be a reply from IMAP. To see what
gnus sends:
,----
| (setq imap-log t)
`----

-- 
PMatos

Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Julien Danjou]

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On Tue, Oct 04 2011, Paulo J. Matos wrote:

> Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 04 2011, Stig Sandbeck Mathisen wrote:
>>
>>> Yup, lots of strange issues. Including things like this:
>>>
>>> ,----
>>> | 980 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '
>>> | 981 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '
>>> | 982 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '
>>
>> I got this too. Is there a way to tell Gnus to print what it does?
>> (Yes I'm asking out loud to Lars, don't really have time to dig into
>> this right now. :)
>
> How do you get that? That seems to be a reply from IMAP. To see what
> gnus sends:

12:35:31 9411 EXAMINE "Trash" (QRESYNC  (1 116))
9411 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '

I think nnimap-quirks is the problem.

-- 
Julien Danjou

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Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[David Engster]

Julien Danjou writes:
> On Tue, Oct 04 2011, Paulo J. Matos wrote:
>
>> Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:
>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 04 2011, Stig Sandbeck Mathisen wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yup, lots of strange issues. Including things like this:
>>>>
>>>> ,----
>>>> | 980 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '
>>>> | 981 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '
>>>> | 982 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '
>>>
>>> I got this too. Is there a way to tell Gnus to print what it does?
>>> (Yes I'm asking out loud to Lars, don't really have time to dig into
>>> this right now. :)
>>
>> How do you get that? That seems to be a reply from IMAP. To see what
>> gnus sends:
>
> 12:35:31 9411 EXAMINE "Trash" (QRESYNC  (1 116))
> 9411 BAD parse error: wrong character; expected '(' but got ' '
>
> I think nnimap-quirks is the problem.

See

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/74388

As for logging what nnimap does, see

git diff -r 609ef3..1ee44c

-David

Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Julien Danjou]

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On Tue, Oct 04 2011, David Engster wrote:

> See
>
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/74388

Interesting. It seems Zimbra here is not broken that way indeed.

(nnimap-command "EXAMINE INBOX (QRESYNC  (1 1))") -> fails
(nnimap-command "EXAMINE INBOX (QRESYNC (1 1))") -> OK

So clearly the nnimap-quirks is not "ok" as it is, but OTOH it is hard
to remove it since the only thing we know about the server is "Zimbra"
without a version.

-- 
Julien Danjou

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Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> Interesting. It seems Zimbra here is not broken that way indeed.
>
> (nnimap-command "EXAMINE INBOX (QRESYNC  (1 1))") -> fails
> (nnimap-command "EXAMINE INBOX (QRESYNC (1 1))") -> OK

Oh, joy.  The Zimbra people have fixed the bug that made
"(QRESYNC (1 1))" fail, but in such a way that
"(QRESYNC  (1 1))" now fails.  How nice.

So now what?  I guess nnimap could just issue one of these first if it's
Zimbra and see whether it breaks or not...

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Julien Danjou]

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On Tue, Oct 04 2011, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> So now what?  I guess nnimap could just issue one of these first if it's
> Zimbra and see whether it breaks or not...

That, or add a variable to enable the workaround for "broken" (big
quotes) servers (the ones that refuse the double space).

So far Zimbra is the only server that is broken, so maybe nnimap-quirks
will never be needed again and anyhow it's already failing (though it's
not its fault).

-- 
Julien Danjou

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Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Paulo J. Matos]

David Engster <deng@randomsample.de> writes:
>
> As for logging what nnimap does, see
>
> git diff -r 609ef3..1ee44c
>

But what that change did was to remove debugging on nnimap, right? So
there's no way to do that now?

Cheers,

-- 
PMatos

Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[David Engster]

Paulo J. Matos writes:
> David Engster <deng@randomsample.de> writes:
>>
>> As for logging what nnimap does, see
>>
>> git diff -r 609ef3..1ee44c
>>
>
> But what that change did was to remove debugging on nnimap, right? So
> there's no way to do that now?

You can revert that change to get debugging.

Cheers,
David

Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Paulo J. Matos]

David Engster <deng@randomsample.de> writes:

> Paulo J. Matos writes:
>> David Engster <deng@randomsample.de> writes:
>>>
>>> As for logging what nnimap does, see
>>>
>>> git diff -r 609ef3..1ee44c
>>>
>>
>> But what that change did was to remove debugging on nnimap, right? So
>> there's no way to do that now?
>
> You can revert that change to get debugging.
>

oh well, thanks. Was actually expecting something more straightforward. :)

-- 
PMatos

Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> That, or add a variable to enable the workaround for "broken" (big
> quotes) servers (the ones that refuse the double space).

I think most of them refuse the double space.  Zimbra was the only
server that broke if you *didn't* have a double space.

> So far Zimbra is the only server that is broken, so maybe nnimap-quirks
> will never be needed again and anyhow it's already failing (though it's
> not its fault).

Yeah...  hm...  what to do...

If it's Zimbra, it can try unquirked first, and then quirked.  Or we
could just remove the quirk and let old-timey Zimbra users fry.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Julien Danjou]

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On Thu, Oct 06 2011, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:

> If it's Zimbra, it can try unquirked first, and then quirked.  Or we
> could just remove the quirk and let old-timey Zimbra users fry.

I just learnt the version of Zimbra I have to use is a version 5.x. I don't
know what version you used. So maybe the double space bug has been
added in a later version. What version did you tested?

-- 
Julien Danjou

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Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:

> I just learnt the version of Zimbra I have to use is a version 5.x. I don't
> know what version you used. So maybe the double space bug has been
> added in a later version. What version did you tested?

I have no idea.  Zimbra helpfully doesn't say what version it is in the
greeting.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Ludovic Courtès]

Hi,

Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> skribis:

> Anyone having some issues using the IMAP server from Zimbra with Gnus?
>
> It's totally unreliable here. It misses new mails, and sometimes show
> weird new messages number. Pressing M-g on a group resolve the issue,
> but basically 'g' is unreliable.

I’m using that, but I don’t have this particular problem (I have
problems with the agent which still messes up with cached messages [0],
but that’s another story.)

Thanks,
Ludo’.

[0] See <87pqtwhswu.fsf@gnu.org> and <87k4g35nfd.fsf@latte.josefsson.org>.

Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Ken Raeburn]

On Oct 7, 2011, at 06:37, Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen wrote:
> Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes:
> 
>> I just learnt the version of Zimbra I have to use is a version 5.x. I don't
>> know what version you used. So maybe the double space bug has been
>> added in a later version. What version did you tested?
> 
> I have no idea.  Zimbra helpfully doesn't say what version it is in the
> greeting.

Apparently the web interface will show it to you, if you tell it to search for "$set:get version".

I haven't used Gnus with the Zimbra server at work because I've been using the Emacs 23 release version without the keepalive support.  I only tonight tried Emacs 24 (from git this evening) vs the Zimbra server at work, and it broke on QRESYNC.

This version ("Client version: 6.0.10_GA_2692" / "Client Release: 20101215161544" / "Build Date: 20101215-1624"), however the IMAP server is configured, apparently does need the double space, but in the greeting, it doesn't identify itself as Zimbra at all; the greeting I see connecting to the imap ssl port is "* OK IMAP4 ready".  (I saw a similar string when stepping through the quirk checking in the debugger, but didn't make a note of it exactly, so I won't assert that it was exactly that, but definitely no "Zimbra" in the string though.)

I hacked the quirk list to check for ".*" instead of "Zimbra" (obviously not a real fix) to get the double-space effect, and it seemed to work okay after that, aside from horribly slow response time when examining each group.  I'll probably experiment some more next week.

Ken

Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Ken Raeburn <raeburn@raeburn.org> writes:

> This version ("Client version: 6.0.10_GA_2692" / "Client Release:
> 20101215161544" / "Build Date: 20101215-1624"), however the IMAP
> server is configured, apparently does need the double space, but in
> the greeting, it doesn't identify itself as Zimbra at all; the
> greeting I see connecting to the imap ssl port is "* OK IMAP4 ready".

Oh, great...

> I hacked the quirk list to check for ".*" instead of "Zimbra"
> (obviously not a real fix) to get the double-space effect, and it
> seemed to work okay after that, aside from horribly slow response time
> when examining each group.  I'll probably experiment some more next
> week.

So I think the only realistic fix here is to issue first a single-space
QRESYNC command and see whether that fails or not.  We could use a
whitelist of servers that definitely don't need it, which would be, er,
all the rest.  Dovecot, Cyrus, Gmail, ... uhm...  So if the server is
not whitelisted, it'll try a bit more before settling on single- or
double-space.

Does that sound reasonable?

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/

Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Steinar Bang]

How do the other IMAP clients deal with zimbra?  Ah... maybe they don't
use QRESYNC...?

Re: Gnus, IMAP and Zimbra

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> writes:

> How do the other IMAP clients deal with zimbra?  Ah... maybe they don't
> use QRESYNC...?

Yes, that would be my guess.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
  bloggy blog http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no/