* on downloading too much data when there's no news @ 2020-08-06 14:13 Wayne Harris 2020-08-06 19:47 ` Adam Sjøgren 0 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Wayne Harris @ 2020-08-06 14:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Here's my secondary select method. (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nntp "news.fidonet.fi" 119))) I subscribe only the group fidonews. Every time I check for new news, about 12 KiB of data is downloaded --- I watch it being downloaded. But there's no news at all. These 12 KiB seem to be due to the group fidonews. If I add other groups, the amount of data increases. So it seems that Gnus is always downloading a considerable amount of data even though there is nothing new to download. Thunderbird doesn't seem to download almost anything when there's nothing new. Any ideas as to how news.fidonet.fi is fooling /my/ Gnus? Thank you. GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (i386-mingw-nt6.2.9200) of 2013-03-17 on MARVIN Gnus v5.13 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: on downloading too much data when there's no news 2020-08-06 14:13 on downloading too much data when there's no news Wayne Harris @ 2020-08-06 19:47 ` Adam Sjøgren 2020-08-06 19:54 ` Adam Sjøgren 2020-08-07 0:23 ` Wayne Harris 0 siblings, 2 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2020-08-06 19:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Wayne writes: > Every time I check for new news, about 12 KiB of data is downloaded Spying a little with ngrep: If I don't have any subscriptions on news.fidonet.fi, Gnus issues a LIST command, which returns all the newsgroups on the server, every time I check for news. Seems excessive, but ok. Next test is subscribing to fidonews. When I check news, Gnus then issues a "LIST ACTIVE fidonews" command. Which also returns a list of all newsgroups. Huh, I expected it to only return information for the group fidonews. Usually "LIST ACTIVE <newsgroup>" only returns the group asked for, I think. For example, talking to another newsserver, running INN: asjo@tullinup:~$ telnet news.gmane.io nntp Trying 116.202.254.214... Connected to ciao.gmane.io. Escape character is '^]'. 200 news.gmane.io InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.6.3 ready (posting ok) LIST ACTIVE gmane.test 215 Newsgroups in form "group high low status" gmane.test 0000008623 0000000051 m . QUIT 205 Bye! Connection closed by foreign host. asjo@tullinup:~$ But news.fidonet.fi returns the full list: asjo@tullinup:~$ telnet news.fidonet.fi nntp Trying 2001:41d0:401:3100::1030... Connected to news.fidonet.fi. Escape character is '^]'. 200 Welcome to SmapiNNTPd/Linux/IPv6 1.3 (posting may be allowed) AUTHINFO USER XXX 381 Received login name, now send password AUTHINFO PASS YYY 281 Authentication accepted LIST ACTIVE fidonews 215 List of newsgroups follows fido7.su.pol 41628 1 y fido7.su.pol.history 283 1 y [...] zyxel 0 0 y netmail 0 0 y +getaccess+ 14 1 y +localchat+ 59 1 y +localtest+ 104 1 y . QUIT 205 Goodbye Connection closed by foreign host. asjo@tullinup:~$ So it looks like it's specific to news.fidonet.fi. Maybe Thunderbird uses a different method than "LIST ACTIVE <newsgroup>" to check for news? Yeah, Thunderbird doesn't use "LIST ACTIVE fidonews", instead it does a "GROUP fidonews". Which in the case of news.fidonet.fi (SmapiNNTPd/ Linux/IPv6 1.3) makes a difference. Maybe Gnus should detect that the server doesn't do LIST ACTIVE - because HELP on it says: 200 Welcome to SmapiNNTPd/Linux/IPv6 1.3 (posting may be allowed) HELP 100 Help text follows Recognized commands: ARTICLE AUTHINFO BODY GROUP HEAD HELP IHAVE (not implemented, messages are always rejected) LAST LIST NEWGROUPS (not implemented, always returns an empty list) NEWNEWS (not implemented, always returns an empty list) NEXT QUIT SLAVE (has no effect) STAT XOVER (partially implemented, byte count and line count are always empty) SmapiNNTPd supports most of RFC-977 and also has support for AUTHINFO and limited XOVER support (RFC-2980) . But now we are deeper into how Gnus works than what I know :-) Best regards, Adam -- "Jabba the Hutt meets Rudolf the Reindeer. I dunno, Adam Sjøgren Mom." asjo@koldfront.dk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: on downloading too much data when there's no news 2020-08-06 19:47 ` Adam Sjøgren @ 2020-08-06 19:54 ` Adam Sjøgren 2020-08-07 0:39 ` Wayne Harris 2020-08-07 0:23 ` Wayne Harris 1 sibling, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2020-08-06 19:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Adam writes: > But now we are deeper into how Gnus works than what I know :-) It looks like you can configure Gnus to use GROUP instead of LIST ACTIVE: ,----[ C-h v nntp-server-list-active-group RET ] | nntp-server-list-active-group is a variable defined in ‘nntp.el’. | Its value is nil | | Documentation: | If nil, then always use GROUP instead of LIST ACTIVE. | This is usually slower, but on misconfigured servers that don’t | update their active files often, this can help. | | This is a Gnus server variable. See Info node ‘(gnus)Select Methods’. `---- So maybe try something similar to: (nntp "fidonet" (nntp-server-list-active-group nil) (nntp-address "news.fidonet.fi")) in your secondary select methods. For me that helps, ngrep shows this when fetching news, subscribed to fidonews: asjo@tullinup:~$ sudo ngrep -q -Wbyline host news.fidonet.fi interface: wlp82s0 (192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0) filter: ( host news.fidonet.fi ) and ((ip || ip6) || (vlan && (ip || ip6))) T 2a06:4001:d06f:0:909a:cc99:d2b8:3fa6:45732 -> 2001:41d0:401:3100::1030:119 [AP] #1 GROUP fidonews. T 2001:41d0:401:3100::1030:119 -> 2a06:4001:d06f:0:909a:cc99:d2b8:3fa6:45732 [AP] #2 211 3290 1 3290 fidonews Group selected. Best regards, Adam -- "Subdued flamboyance" Adam Sjøgren asjo@koldfront.dk ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: on downloading too much data when there's no news 2020-08-06 19:54 ` Adam Sjøgren @ 2020-08-07 0:39 ` Wayne Harris 2020-08-07 1:07 ` Amin Bandali ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Wayne Harris @ 2020-08-07 0:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> writes: > Adam writes: > >> But now we are deeper into how Gnus works than what I know :-) > > It looks like you can configure Gnus to use GROUP instead of LIST > ACTIVE: > > ,----[ C-h v nntp-server-list-active-group RET ] > | nntp-server-list-active-group is a variable defined in ‘nntp.el’. > | Its value is nil > | > | Documentation: > | If nil, then always use GROUP instead of LIST ACTIVE. > | This is usually slower, but on misconfigured servers that don’t > | update their active files often, this can help. > | > | This is a Gnus server variable. See Info node ‘(gnus)Select Methods’. > `---- How can I build such a beautiful ASCII-sign like that? (Jealous!) > So maybe try something similar to: > > (nntp "fidonet" > (nntp-server-list-active-group nil) > (nntp-address "news.fidonet.fi")) > > in your secondary select methods. That improved my news reading so much. It's so much faster now. Thank you so much for this great show of problem-solving skills. Now, I'm looking at https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3977#section-7.6.3 and it seems news.fidonet.net is not violating it. The server does not seem to advertise the READER capability. I'm not sure how to see all capabilities. I suppose news.fidonet.fi just advertises what it says when we connect and that's it. --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- 7.6.3. LIST ACTIVE This keyword MUST be supported by servers advertising the READER capability. LIST ACTIVE returns a list of valid newsgroups and associated information. If no wildmat is specified, the server MUST include every group that the client is permitted to select with the GROUP command (Section 6.1.1). --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- > For me that helps, ngrep shows this when fetching news, subscribed to > fidonews: It helped amazingly! > > > asjo@tullinup:~$ sudo ngrep -q -Wbyline host news.fidonet.fi > interface: wlp82s0 (192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0) > filter: ( host news.fidonet.fi ) and ((ip || ip6) || (vlan && (ip || ip6))) > > T 2a06:4001:d06f:0:909a:cc99:d2b8:3fa6:45732 -> 2001:41d0:401:3100::1030:119 [AP] #1 > GROUP fidonews. > > > T 2001:41d0:401:3100::1030:119 -> 2a06:4001:d06f:0:909a:cc99:d2b8:3fa6:45732 [AP] #2 > 211 3290 1 3290 fidonews Group selected. Why are you using ngrep and not just telnet here? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: on downloading too much data when there's no news 2020-08-07 0:39 ` Wayne Harris @ 2020-08-07 1:07 ` Amin Bandali 2020-08-07 2:45 ` Wayne Harris 2020-08-07 17:40 ` Russ Allbery 2020-08-07 17:44 ` Adam Sjøgren 2 siblings, 1 reply; 9+ messages in thread From: Amin Bandali @ 2020-08-07 1:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 886 bytes --] Wayne Harris writes: > Adam Sjøgren writes: > >> Adam writes: >> >>> But now we are deeper into how Gnus works than what I know :-) >> >> It looks like you can configure Gnus to use GROUP instead of LIST >> ACTIVE: >> >> ,----[ C-h v nntp-server-list-active-group RET ] >> | nntp-server-list-active-group is a variable defined in ‘nntp.el’. >> | Its value is nil >> | >> | Documentation: >> | If nil, then always use GROUP instead of LIST ACTIVE. >> | This is usually slower, but on misconfigured servers that don’t >> | update their active files often, this can help. >> | >> | This is a Gnus server variable. See Info node ‘(gnus)Select Methods’. >> `---- > > How can I build such a beautiful ASCII-sign like that? (Jealous!) > [...] That would be boxquote <http://www.davep.org/emacs/#Fboxquote.el>. It's a super neat little package. :-) [-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 857 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: on downloading too much data when there's no news 2020-08-07 1:07 ` Amin Bandali @ 2020-08-07 2:45 ` Wayne Harris 0 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Wayne Harris @ 2020-08-07 2:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Amin Bandali <bandali@gnu.org> writes: > Wayne Harris writes: > >> Adam Sjøgren writes: >> >>> Adam writes: >>> >>>> But now we are deeper into how Gnus works than what I know :-) >>> >>> It looks like you can configure Gnus to use GROUP instead of LIST >>> ACTIVE: >>> >>> ,----[ C-h v nntp-server-list-active-group RET ] >>> | nntp-server-list-active-group is a variable defined in ‘nntp.el’. >>> | Its value is nil >>> | >>> | Documentation: >>> | If nil, then always use GROUP instead of LIST ACTIVE. >>> | This is usually slower, but on misconfigured servers that don’t >>> | update their active files often, this can help. >>> | >>> | This is a Gnus server variable. See Info node ‘(gnus)Select Methods’. >>> `---- >> >> How can I build such a beautiful ASCII-sign like that? (Jealous!) >> > [...] > > That would be boxquote <http://www.davep.org/emacs/#Fboxquote.el>. > It's a super neat little package. :-) ,----[ Loved it! ] | I will have to agree. But maybe I'll abuse it so much and nobody will | want to read my posts anymore. :-) `---- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: on downloading too much data when there's no news 2020-08-07 0:39 ` Wayne Harris 2020-08-07 1:07 ` Amin Bandali @ 2020-08-07 17:40 ` Russ Allbery 2020-08-07 17:44 ` Adam Sjøgren 2 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Russ Allbery @ 2020-08-07 17:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Wayne Harris <wharris1@protonmail.com> writes: > Now, I'm looking at > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3977#section-7.6.3 > and it seems news.fidonet.net is not violating it. The server does not > seem to advertise the READER capability. I'm not sure how to see all > capabilities. I suppose news.fidonet.fi just advertises what it says > when we connect and that's it. news.fidonet.fi doesn't support the CAPABILITIES command, so it's not in compliance with RFC 3977. It may predate the RFC, or it may not intend to comply. It's some NNTP implementation with which I was not previously familiar: 200 Welcome to SmapiNNTPd/Linux/IPv6 1.3 (posting may be allowed) It appears to be specific to file formats used by BBS systems and was originally written in 2003, which does indeed predate RFC 3977. https://github.com/ftnapps/smapinntpd That LIST ACTIVE behavior is unusual. I've not seen it before. It doesn't comply with RFC 2980 either, which documents existing practice prior to RFC 3977. It looks like it's ignoring the ACTIVE keyword and just returning an RFC 977 response to the LIST command, which is consistent with the HELP output showing that the author appears to be focused on RFC 977. -- Russ Allbery (eagle@eyrie.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: on downloading too much data when there's no news 2020-08-07 0:39 ` Wayne Harris 2020-08-07 1:07 ` Amin Bandali 2020-08-07 17:40 ` Russ Allbery @ 2020-08-07 17:44 ` Adam Sjøgren 2 siblings, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Adam Sjøgren @ 2020-08-07 17:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Wayne writes: >> asjo@tullinup:~$ sudo ngrep -q -Wbyline host news.fidonet.fi >> interface: wlp82s0 (192.168.1.0/255.255.255.0) >> filter: ( host news.fidonet.fi ) and ((ip || ip6) || (vlan && (ip || ip6))) >> >> T 2a06:4001:d06f:0:909a:cc99:d2b8:3fa6:45732 -> 2001:41d0:401:3100::1030:119 [AP] #1 >> GROUP fidonews. >> >> >> T 2001:41d0:401:3100::1030:119 -> 2a06:4001:d06f:0:909a:cc99:d2b8:3fa6:45732 [AP] #2 >> 211 3290 1 3290 fidonews Group selected. > > Why are you using ngrep and not just telnet here? I wanted to show what Gnus did with the configuration changed. Best regards, Adam -- "Some angel whore Adam Sjøgren Who can learn a guitar lick asjo@koldfront.dk Hey, that's what I call muuuusic" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
* Re: on downloading too much data when there's no news 2020-08-06 19:47 ` Adam Sjøgren 2020-08-06 19:54 ` Adam Sjøgren @ 2020-08-07 0:23 ` Wayne Harris 1 sibling, 0 replies; 9+ messages in thread From: Wayne Harris @ 2020-08-07 0:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: ding Adam Sjøgren <asjo@koldfront.dk> writes: > Wayne writes: > >> Every time I check for new news, about 12 KiB of data is downloaded > > Spying a little with ngrep: [...] That was a great analysis! Very grateful. Thank you. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2020-08-07 17:45 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 9+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2020-08-06 14:13 on downloading too much data when there's no news Wayne Harris 2020-08-06 19:47 ` Adam Sjøgren 2020-08-06 19:54 ` Adam Sjøgren 2020-08-07 0:39 ` Wayne Harris 2020-08-07 1:07 ` Amin Bandali 2020-08-07 2:45 ` Wayne Harris 2020-08-07 17:40 ` Russ Allbery 2020-08-07 17:44 ` Adam Sjøgren 2020-08-07 0:23 ` Wayne Harris
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