gmane "Server Closed Connection" problem on Vista

gmane "Server Closed Connection" problem on Vista

[Steinar Bang]

Platform: Intel Core2 Duo, Windows Vista,
	  GNU Emacs 22.3.1 (i386-mingw-nt6.0.6001) of 2008-09-06 on SOFT-MJASON
	  No Gnus v0.11 (CVS update from today)

When I try opening groups with more than a few hundred unread articles
on gmane (I haven't any non-gmane groups with a lot of traffic, so I
don't know if this holds for other servers), I get the message "Server
Closed Connection" and entering the group stops up.

Does anyone else see this behaviour?  Is it a gmane specific problem?
(eg. time out settings?)  Is it a Vista-specific problem?  Is it a
windows specific problem?  Is it an emacs 22 specific problem?  Is it an
emacs 22 on windows Vista specific problem?

This is an annoying behaviour, so any hints or tips of how to work
around it, is appreciated.

Thanx!


- Steinar

Re: gmane "Server Closed Connection" problem on Vista

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Sun, 12 Apr 2009 21:41:40 +0200 Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> wrote: 

SB> Platform: Intel Core2 Duo, Windows Vista,
SB> 	  GNU Emacs 22.3.1 (i386-mingw-nt6.0.6001) of 2008-09-06 on SOFT-MJASON
SB> 	  No Gnus v0.11 (CVS update from today)

SB> When I try opening groups with more than a few hundred unread articles
SB> on gmane (I haven't any non-gmane groups with a lot of traffic, so I
SB> don't know if this holds for other servers), I get the message "Server
SB> Closed Connection" and entering the group stops up.

SB> Does anyone else see this behaviour?  Is it a gmane specific problem?
SB> (eg. time out settings?)  Is it a Vista-specific problem?  Is it a
SB> windows specific problem?  Is it an emacs 22 specific problem?  Is it an
SB> emacs 22 on windows Vista specific problem?

Can you try the equivalent NNTP commands over telnet and see if Gmane
hangs up the connection?  How about another NNTP client?

Ted

Re: gmane "Server Closed Connection" problem on Vista

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>:

> Can you try the equivalent NNTP commands over telnet and see if Gmane
> hangs up the connection? 

I guess... if I can find a telnet that works as expected on Vista...?

> How about another NNTP client?

Is there any other...? ;-)

Yeah, I can try with Thunderbird.

Re: gmane "Server Closed Connection" problem on Vista

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 18:29:52 +0200 Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> wrote: 

>>>>>> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>:
>> Can you try the equivalent NNTP commands over telnet and see if Gmane
>> hangs up the connection? 

SB> I guess... if I can find a telnet that works as expected on Vista...?

Putty has a telnet client built-in in addition to SSH, I believe.

Ted

Re: gmane "Server Closed Connection" problem on Vista

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>:

> On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 18:29:52 +0200 Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> wrote: 
>>>>>>> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>:

>>> Can you try the equivalent NNTP commands over telnet and see if
>>> Gmane hangs up the connection?

SB> I guess... if I can find a telnet that works as expected on Vista...?

> Putty has a telnet client built-in in addition to SSH, I believe.

Yes, but is that something that can be used to open a conversation on a
particular port inside a cmd.exe shell?  Or does it open a new window,
presenting a login screen?

I can't get the hang of these windows things, and I terribly miss
linux. 

Re: gmane "Server Closed Connection" problem on Vista

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 09:15:20 +0200 Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> wrote: 

>>>>>> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>:
>> Putty has a telnet client built-in in addition to SSH, I believe.

SB> Yes, but is that something that can be used to open a conversation on a
SB> particular port inside a cmd.exe shell?  Or does it open a new window,
SB> presenting a login screen?

SB> I can't get the hang of these windows things, and I terribly miss
SB> linux. 

(you know you can run a GNU/Linux VM image inside Vista, right?)

Download Putty.  Setup a telnet connection (host, port, etc.).  It will
work well--it's the first application I install on any Windows system I
have to use.

Ted

Re: gmane "Server Closed Connection" problem on Vista

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>:

> (you know you can run a GNU/Linux VM image inside Vista, right?)

I tried a couple of alternatives, but none worked well.  I can't
remember what exactly they were.

I've got a half functioning cygwin (BLODA problems during install), and
some GnuWin32 utilities.

> Download Putty.  Setup a telnet connection (host, port, etc.).  It will
> work well--it's the first application I install on any Windows system I
> have to use.

I've already got Putty.  I use it together with Xming, to get some linux
action on the Vista machine.

(yes, I could do telnet from a linux box, but that won't help debug the
issue on the Vista box)

Re: gmane "Server Closed Connection" problem on Vista

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no>:

>>>>> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>:
>> Can you try the equivalent NNTP commands over telnet and see if Gmane
>> hangs up the connection? 

> I guess... if I can find a telnet that works as expected on Vista...?

Not yet.  I need to figure out how to do the equivalent commands.

>> How about another NNTP client?

> Yeah, I can try with Thunderbird.

Ok.  Right now I have a troublesome group, gmane.emacs.orgmode with 4208
unread.  When I try opening that group, Gnus sometimes read some hundred
keys and then says "Server closed connection".  Sometimes it goes
straight to "Server closed connection".

I started Thunderbird, and created a newsgroup account for
news.gmane.org, subscribed to gmane.emacs.orgmode, and told it to
download the 4208 latest headers, marking all others as read.

The summary buffer equivalent came up almost immediately.

Re: gmane "Server Closed Connection" problem on Vista

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no>:
>>>>> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>:

>>> How about another NNTP client?

>> Yeah, I can try with Thunderbird.

> Ok.  Right now I have a troublesome group, gmane.emacs.orgmode with
> 4208 unread.  When I try opening that group, Gnus sometimes read some
> hundred keys and then says "Server closed connection".  Sometimes it
> goes straight to "Server closed connection".

FWIW I tried on RHEL 4 with GNU Emacs 21.3.1 (i386-redhat-linux-gnu, X
toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars) of 2006-05-02 on hs20-bc1-7.build.redhat.com,
and No Gnus v0.11 (CVS update from today).

The gmane.emacs.orgmode was visited with 4234 unread articles, and it
came up without a hitch.

So, I'm guessing this is a Vista problem.  Or perhaps a Win32 emacs on
Vista problem?

Re: gmane "Server Closed Connection" problem on Vista

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 18:29:37 +0200 Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> wrote: 

>>>>>> Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no>:
>>>>>> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>:

>>>> How about another NNTP client?

>>> Yeah, I can try with Thunderbird.

>> Ok.  Right now I have a troublesome group, gmane.emacs.orgmode with
>> 4208 unread.  When I try opening that group, Gnus sometimes read some
>> hundred keys and then says "Server closed connection".  Sometimes it
>> goes straight to "Server closed connection".

SB> FWIW I tried on RHEL 4 with GNU Emacs 21.3.1 (i386-redhat-linux-gnu, X
SB> toolkit, Xaw3d scroll bars) of 2006-05-02 on hs20-bc1-7.build.redhat.com,
SB> and No Gnus v0.11 (CVS update from today).

SB> The gmane.emacs.orgmode was visited with 4234 unread articles, and it
SB> came up without a hitch.

SB> So, I'm guessing this is a Vista problem.  Or perhaps a Win32 emacs on
SB> Vista problem?

Strange.  It would be ideal if we could isolate the test case to be
outside of Gnus.  Can you debug the NNTP interaction and find the
command sequence that triggers the disconnect?  It should then be fairly
simple to test it outside of Gnus (for instance, with Perl using
Net::NNTP).

Ted

Re: gmane "Server Closed Connection" problem on Vista

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>:

> Strange.  It would be ideal if we could isolate the test case to be
> outside of Gnus.  Can you debug the NNTP interaction and find the
> command sequence that triggers the disconnect?  It should then be
> fairly simple to test it outside of Gnus (for instance, with Perl
> using Net::NNTP).

I have a wireshark sniff of a failed group open, and just looking at the
NNTP traffic doesn't yield any clues.,

The last thing that goes on there, is:

XOVER 9209-9209
224 9208-9208 fields follow
9208.Re: Languages again.Paul R <paul.r.ml@gmail.com>.Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:28:31 +0100.<87zlk7q0ps.fsf@gmail.com>.<2AF10E75-89F8-49A9-BD07-F50E394C401F@gmail.com>.5048.21.Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.orgmode:9208.
.
224 9209-9209 fields follow
9209.Re: Languages again.Sebastian Rose <sebastian_rose@gmx.de>.Mon, 10 Nov 2008 13:07:33 +0100.<87ljvriy2i.fsf@kassiopeya.MSHEIMNETZ>.<2AF10E75-89F8-49A9-BD07-F50E394C401F@gmail.com>.5622.68.Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.orgmode:9209.
.
205 .

and then nothing more.

If I look at the packages, then the client side sends a FIN, ACK, and
then a RST, ACK, just before the connection terminates.

I haven't the TCP specification in my head, but this looks like the
client, ie. Gnus/Emacs, for some reason terminating the connection....? 

So why does it complain that the server closed the connection?  I guess
it could be the emacs TCP/IP support closing the connection, and Gnus
complaining that the server had closed the connection...?

Re: gmane "Server Closed Connection" problem on Vista

[Steinar Bang]

>>>>> Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no>:


> I have a wireshark sniff of a failed group open, and just looking at the
> NNTP traffic doesn't yield any clues.,

> The last thing that goes on there, is:

[snip!]
> .
> 205 .

205 is NNTP for "closing connection - goodbye!"

So that mean that the server actually closes the connection (at least
from Gnus' point of view).

> If I look at the packages, then the client side sends a FIN, ACK, and
> then a RST, ACK, just before the connection terminates.

FIN means that the sender (which in this case is the client machine) has
no more data, and RST is reset the connection.

If the time stamps of the packages, and the order in wireshark can be
trusted, then for some reason, the TCP connection is torn down from the
client side, and the NNTP server responds to the terminating TCP
connection with a 250 response... which of course makes Gnus thinks the
server has closed the connection.

But where the FIN and RST comes from, I have no idea.

Re: gmane "Server Closed Connection" problem on Vista

[Ted Zlatanov]

On Fri, 15 May 2009 21:33:10 +0200 Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no> wrote: 

>>>>>> Steinar Bang <sb@dod.no>:
>> I have a wireshark sniff of a failed group open, and just looking at the
>> NNTP traffic doesn't yield any clues.,

>> The last thing that goes on there, is:

SB> [snip!]
>> .
>> 205 .

SB> 205 is NNTP for "closing connection - goodbye!"

SB> So that mean that the server actually closes the connection (at least
SB> from Gnus' point of view).

>> If I look at the packages, then the client side sends a FIN, ACK, and
>> then a RST, ACK, just before the connection terminates.

SB> FIN means that the sender (which in this case is the client machine) has
SB> no more data, and RST is reset the connection.

SB> If the time stamps of the packages, and the order in wireshark can be
SB> trusted, then for some reason, the TCP connection is torn down from the
SB> client side, and the NNTP server responds to the terminating TCP
SB> connection with a 250 response... which of course makes Gnus thinks the
SB> server has closed the connection.

SB> But where the FIN and RST comes from, I have no idea.

Sorry for the delay in responding.

I wondered how this could be debugged, but I have no idea.  It's truly
bizarre that this only happens on Windows.  My best guess is that
something else is interfering and sending those FIN/RST packets, like a
software firewall perhaps.  I can't duplicate it on a Windows machine.
Can you duplicate on another Windows machine, ideally outside your
current environment?

Ted