* I wanna write an RFC @ 1999-03-14 16:44 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-03-15 15:14 ` Jari Aalto+list.ding 1999-03-16 1:18 ` David Hedbor 0 siblings, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-03-14 16:44 UTC (permalink / raw) No particular reason, really -- I just want to. One thing that I think is severly underdocumented is the X-Face header. It's now getting a bit long in the tooth, and I think ten years is way to long for an "X-" header to survive, so I want to write an RFC that would, like, standardize it and stuff. "Face" is a nice header name, isn't it? Anyway, I just wanted to know whether anyone knows of any previous attempts to formalize this header. I've done Metacrawler, and I can't really find anything at all about the format. I have the source to un/compface (from '90; written by James Ashton), but that's it. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@ifi.uio.no * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-14 16:44 I wanna write an RFC Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-03-15 15:14 ` Jari Aalto+list.ding 1999-03-16 1:18 ` David Hedbor 1 sibling, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Jari Aalto+list.ding @ 1999-03-15 15:14 UTC (permalink / raw) * 1999-03-14 Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> list.ding * Message-Id: <m3g178xbq6.fsf@quimbies.gnus.org> | No particular reason, really -- I just want to. | | One thing that I think is severly underdocumented is the X-Face | header. It's now getting a bit long in the tooth, and I think ten | years is way to long for an "X-" header to survive, so I want to write | an RFC that would, like, standardize it and stuff. "Face" is a nice | header name, isn't it? | | Anyway, I just wanted to know whether anyone knows of any previous | attempts to formalize this header. I've done Metacrawler, and I can't | really find anything at all about the format. I have the source to | un/compface (from '90; written by James Ashton), but that's it. Contact Marty Fouts <gnus@.fogey.com>, He's IETF USEFOR and can provide all the information you need. jari ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-14 16:44 I wanna write an RFC Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-03-15 15:14 ` Jari Aalto+list.ding @ 1999-03-16 1:18 ` David Hedbor 1999-03-16 7:29 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-03-17 1:25 ` Norman Walsh 1 sibling, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: David Hedbor @ 1999-03-16 1:18 UTC (permalink / raw) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@ifi.uio.no> writes: > No particular reason, really -- I just want to. > > One thing that I think is severly underdocumented is the X-Face > header. It's now getting a bit long in the tooth, and I think ten > years is way to long for an "X-" header to survive, so I want to write > an RFC that would, like, standardize it and stuff. "Face" is a nice > header name, isn't it? > > Anyway, I just wanted to know whether anyone knows of any previous > attempts to formalize this header. I've done Metacrawler, and I can't > really find anything at all about the format. I have the source to > un/compface (from '90; written by James Ashton), but that's it. What about creating a new, improved standard instead? The X-Face thing is rather dated. A picture with a couple of bitplanes would be nice for example. Also all implementations of x-face are buggy. A friend made a version which worked as the description said it should, and it naturally couldn't decompress any other x-face headers. I really think it's a rather bad standard. :) -- [ Below is a random fortune, which is unrelated to the above message. ] Sweater, n.: A garment worn by a child when its mother feels chilly. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-16 1:18 ` David Hedbor @ 1999-03-16 7:29 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-03-16 22:42 ` David Hedbor 1999-03-17 1:25 ` Norman Walsh 1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-03-16 7:29 UTC (permalink / raw) David Hedbor <david@hedbor.org> writes: > What about creating a new, improved standard instead? (...) ...and here we have the reason why X-Face never got standardized. Every time someone suggests implementing it, ten people jump and say it should be replaced with something better. Which never gets done, partly because pictures with a couple of bitplanes would be slightly too longish to attach to every message. > Also all implementations of x-face are buggy. I don't understand this. All the implementations I know of are using the "uncompface" code, either through the external program, or through the library. Is that code buggy, or do you claim that the specification is buggy? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-16 7:29 ` Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-03-16 22:42 ` David Hedbor 1999-03-17 12:18 ` David Kågedal 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: David Hedbor @ 1999-03-16 22:42 UTC (permalink / raw) Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > David Hedbor <david@hedbor.org> writes: > > > Also all implementations of x-face are buggy. > > I don't understand this. All the implementations I know of are using > the "uncompface" code, either through the external program, or through > the library. Is that code buggy, or do you claim that the > specification is buggy? That code doesn't follow the specification. I don't know exactly what the error in that code is, but I can find out if anyone is interested. -- [ Below is a random fortune, which is unrelated to the above message. ] Underlying Principle of Socio-Genetics: Superiority is recessive. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-16 22:42 ` David Hedbor @ 1999-03-17 12:18 ` David Kågedal 1999-03-17 12:24 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-03-28 14:59 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: David Kågedal @ 1999-03-17 12:18 UTC (permalink / raw) David Hedbor <david@hedbor.org> writes: > Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > > > David Hedbor <david@hedbor.org> writes: > > > > > Also all implementations of x-face are buggy. > > > > I don't understand this. All the implementations I know of are using > > the "uncompface" code, either through the external program, or through > > the library. Is that code buggy, or do you claim that the > > specification is buggy? > > That code doesn't follow the specification. I don't know exactly what > the error in that code is, but I can find out if anyone is interested. As I understand Marcus (out mutual friend who investigated this), the code uses arrays for some sort of prediction, but it indexes them at least one index off, resulting in both that the predictions don't work as expected, and that it reads memory outside the table. This out-of-bounds memory happens to be in another structure in the compface code, but since everybody uses the same code, it always works the same way. However, if you want to write another implementation you'll have to reimplement all the bugs. -- David Kågedal <davidk@lysator.liu.se> http://www.lysator.liu.se/~davidk/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-17 12:18 ` David Kågedal @ 1999-03-17 12:24 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-03-28 14:59 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-03-17 12:24 UTC (permalink / raw) davidk@lysator.liu.se (David Kĺgedal) writes: > As I understand Marcus (out mutual friend who investigated this), > the code uses arrays for some sort of prediction, but it indexes > them at least one index off, resulting in both that the predictions > don't work as expected, and that it reads memory outside the table. > This out-of-bounds memory happens to be in another structure in the > compface code, but since everybody uses the same code, it always > works the same way. How can this out-of-bound reads ever work cross-platform? I mean, X-Faces created on sparcs can be read on both sparcs, intels, and alphas. If their creation/rendition were truly the result of out-of-bounds randomness, I don't see how it could work. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-17 12:18 ` David Kågedal 1999-03-17 12:24 ` Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-03-28 14:59 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-03-28 14:59 UTC (permalink / raw) davidk@lysator.liu.se (David Kågedal) writes: > However, if you want to write another implementation you'll have to > reimplement all the bugs. Oh, wow. Huh. Hm. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-16 1:18 ` David Hedbor 1999-03-16 7:29 ` Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-03-17 1:25 ` Norman Walsh 1999-03-17 15:42 ` Laura Conrad 1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Norman Walsh @ 1999-03-17 1:25 UTC (permalink / raw) | What about creating a new, improved standard instead? The X-Face thing | is rather dated. A picture with a couple of bitplanes would be nice In a web connected world, I think it would make a lot more sense to put the face on a server somewhere and just point to it with the header. Just my two cents, but I can't see the faces anyway, so nevermind ... ;-) Cheers, norm -- Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | A heavy snowfall disappears into http://nwalsh.com/ | the sea. What silence! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-17 1:25 ` Norman Walsh @ 1999-03-17 15:42 ` Laura Conrad 1999-03-17 16:06 ` Lee Willis 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Laura Conrad @ 1999-03-17 15:42 UTC (permalink / raw) Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> writes: > In a web connected world, I think it would make a lot more sense to > put the face on a server somewhere and just point to it with the > header. Lots of us aren't reading mail in a web-connected world. -- Laura lconrad@world.std.com ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-17 15:42 ` Laura Conrad @ 1999-03-17 16:06 ` Lee Willis 1999-03-17 16:29 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-03-18 0:10 ` Norman Walsh 0 siblings, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Lee Willis @ 1999-03-17 16:06 UTC (permalink / raw) Laura Conrad <lconrad@concord.com> writes: > Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> writes: > > > In a web connected world, I think it would make a lot more sense to > > put the face on a server somewhere and just point to it with the > > header. > > Lots of us aren't reading mail in a web-connected world. In which case you're gnus wouldn't try and go get it, and you've saved the bandwidth difference between actually sending an image and sending the image's location. Seems cruel, but I can see both sides of the argument. Personally I like the way X-Face:s are included in the message since I don't really want Gnus to go and get an image off the web everytime I open a message, but I can also see how it would be nice in some cases. Lee. -- I was doing object-oriented assembly at 1 year old ... For some reason my mom insists on calling it "Playing with blocks" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-17 16:06 ` Lee Willis @ 1999-03-17 16:29 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-03-17 16:35 ` Didier Verna 1999-03-17 17:15 ` William M. Perry 1999-03-18 0:10 ` Norman Walsh 1 sibling, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-03-17 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw) Lee Willis <lee@gbdirect.co.uk> writes: > In which case you're gnus wouldn't try and go get it, ...and you end up not seeing the image. :-( The nice thing about X-Face is that it's small (OK, relatively small) so it can be shipped off with every message. Not to mention the problem grabbing things via web to show a mail message is slow, and that w3 itself is big, loads slowly and is somewhat bulky (no offense to Bill who is doing everything in his power to make it more usable.) A hard-core Emacs groupie that I am, I can't bring myself to use w3 seriously. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-17 16:29 ` Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-03-17 16:35 ` Didier Verna 1999-03-17 17:15 ` William M. Perry 1 sibling, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Didier Verna @ 1999-03-17 16:35 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > Lee Willis <lee@gbdirect.co.uk> writes: > > > In which case you're gnus wouldn't try and go get it, > > ...and you end up not seeing the image. :-( > > The nice thing about X-Face is that it's small (OK, relatively small) > so it can be shipped off with every message. And what's more, if you rilly want to use the net to retreive an image, the picons are for you. Most people now have a picon face very similar to their X-Face:, except that the image can be of a higher quality, in color, and obviously bigger. -- / / _ _ Didier Verna http://www.inf.enst.fr/~verna/ - / / - / / /_/ / E.N.S.T. INF C201.1 mailto:verna@inf.enst.fr /_/ / /_/ / /__ / 46 rue Barrault Tel. (33) 01 45 81 73 46 75634 Paris cedex 13 Fax. (33) 01 45 81 31 19 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-17 16:29 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-03-17 16:35 ` Didier Verna @ 1999-03-17 17:15 ` William M. Perry 1999-03-17 17:43 ` Per Abrahamsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: William M. Perry @ 1999-03-17 17:15 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > Lee Willis <lee@gbdirect.co.uk> writes: > > > In which case you're gnus wouldn't try and go get it, > > ...and you end up not seeing the image. :-( > > The nice thing about X-Face is that it's small (OK, relatively small) so > it can be shipped off with every message. > > Not to mention the problem grabbing things via web to show a mail message > is slow, and that w3 itself is big, loads slowly and is somewhat bulky > (no offense to Bill who is doing everything in his power to make it more > usable.) Emacs/W3 is probably going to die very soon, due to lack of time and interest on my part. I just can't afford the time any more. I've got funner things like digging up my passport and writing my presentation for japan to worry about. :) _But_ the image fetching stuff could easily be done just with the URL package, which is much smaller than Emacs/W3. You could asynchronously fetch the image and have some nice persistent cache of them, etc. If the fetch did not complete by the time you have moved onto another article, you just don't see it, but it would still go into the cache. This would be > A hard-core Emacs groupie that I am, I can't bring myself to use w3 > seriously. I'd be interested to see if anybody could plug the mozilla stuff into an XEmacs frame once the dynamic loading stuff gets finished off. -Bill P. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-17 17:15 ` William M. Perry @ 1999-03-17 17:43 ` Per Abrahamsen 1999-03-17 16:44 ` François Pinard ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Per Abrahamsen @ 1999-03-17 17:43 UTC (permalink / raw) wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes: > Emacs/W3 is probably going to die very soon, due to lack of time and > interest on my part. Arrgghh! It has just gotten useful. The way w3 displays text/html (after turning off all features) in Gnus means that it almost doesn't bother me anymore. I also use it for following links in Gnus articles. Netscape is still used as the "stand-alone" browser, for reading /. and comics. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-17 17:43 ` Per Abrahamsen @ 1999-03-17 16:44 ` François Pinard 1999-03-17 18:01 ` Harry Putnam 1999-03-17 18:29 ` William M. Perry 2 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: François Pinard @ 1999-03-17 16:44 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes: > The way w3 displays text/html (after turning off all features) in Gnus > means that it almost doesn't bother me anymore. I also use it for > following links in Gnus articles. It is a real blessing to have w3 around, and so well integrated with Gnus. Replies work wonderfully, it is even fun to use. All is nice, spring is coming, flowers, bees, and the rest. Thanks to all for the happiness! :-) -- François Pinard mailto:pinard@iro.umontreal.ca Join the free Translation Project! http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-17 17:43 ` Per Abrahamsen 1999-03-17 16:44 ` François Pinard @ 1999-03-17 18:01 ` Harry Putnam 1999-03-17 18:21 ` William M. Perry 1999-03-17 18:30 ` Per Abrahamsen 1999-03-17 18:29 ` William M. Perry 2 siblings, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Harry Putnam @ 1999-03-17 18:01 UTC (permalink / raw) Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes: > wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes: > > > Emacs/W3 is probably going to die very soon, due to lack of time and > > interest on my part. > > Arrgghh! It has just gotten useful. The way w3 displays text/html > (after turning off all features) in Gnus means that it almost doesn't > bother me anymore. I also use it for following links in Gnus > articles. > > Netscape is still used as the "stand-alone" browser, for reading > /. and comics. Arrgghh! Here too. Just learned enough html to want to use w3 for editing etc. Link work-horse too. But Per, how do you shut off that horrbile blockyness. I run gnus in a dark color (grey20). I'd rather not spend days slogging thru the style sheet, learning new syntax etc. But would like to see web stuff in the same bg and fg as gnus. -- Harry Putnam reader@newsguy.com Running Redhat Linux-5.2 See http://www.jtan.com/~reader for a brief pictorial saga of construction work in the trade of "Boilermaker" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-17 18:01 ` Harry Putnam @ 1999-03-17 18:21 ` William M. Perry 1999-03-18 17:27 ` Harry Putnam 1999-03-17 18:30 ` Per Abrahamsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: William M. Perry @ 1999-03-17 18:21 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes: > Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes: > > > wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes: > > > > > Emacs/W3 is probably going to die very soon, due to lack of time and > > > interest on my part. > > > > Arrgghh! It has just gotten useful. The way w3 displays text/html > > (after turning off all features) in Gnus means that it almost doesn't > > bother me anymore. I also use it for following links in Gnus > > articles. > > > > Netscape is still used as the "stand-alone" browser, for reading > > /. and comics. > > Arrgghh! Here too. Just learned enough html to want to use w3 for > editing etc. Link work-horse too. > > But Per, how do you shut off that horrbile blockyness. I run gnus in a > dark color (grey20). I'd rather not spend days slogging thru the style > sheet, learning new syntax etc. But would like to see web stuff in the > same bg and fg as gnus. (setq w3-user-colors-take-precedence t) -Bill P. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-17 18:21 ` William M. Perry @ 1999-03-18 17:27 ` Harry Putnam 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Harry Putnam @ 1999-03-18 17:27 UTC (permalink / raw) wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes: > (setq w3-user-colors-take-precedence t) > > -Bill P. > Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes: > > Here are the settings needed to make Emacs/W3 useful: > > (setq w3-user-fonts-take-precedence t) ; Use _my_ font. > (setq w3-user-colors-take-precedence t) ; Use _my_ colors. > (setq w3-honor-stylesheets nil) ; No, just do it.. > (setq w3-use-terminal-characters nil) ; No weird characters. > (setq w3-horizontal-rule-char 45) ; I said: no weird characters. Oh boy! Now we're talking ... Thanks fellas -- Harry Putnam reader@newsguy.com Running Redhat Linux-5.2 See http://www.jtan.com/~reader for a brief pictorial saga of construction work in the trade of "Boilermaker" ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-17 18:01 ` Harry Putnam 1999-03-17 18:21 ` William M. Perry @ 1999-03-17 18:30 ` Per Abrahamsen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Per Abrahamsen @ 1999-03-17 18:30 UTC (permalink / raw) Harry Putnam <reader@newsguy.com> writes: > But Per, how do you shut off that horrbile blockyness. I run gnus > in a dark color (grey20). I'd rather not spend days slogging thru > the style sheet, learning new syntax etc. But would like to see web > stuff in the same bg and fg as gnus. Here are the settings needed to make Emacs/W3 useful: (setq w3-user-fonts-take-precedence t) ; Use _my_ font. (setq w3-user-colors-take-precedence t) ; Use _my_ colors. (setq w3-honor-stylesheets nil) ; No, just do it.. (setq w3-use-terminal-characters nil) ; No weird characters. (setq w3-horizontal-rule-char 45) ; I said: no weird characters. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-17 17:43 ` Per Abrahamsen 1999-03-17 16:44 ` François Pinard 1999-03-17 18:01 ` Harry Putnam @ 1999-03-17 18:29 ` William M. Perry 2 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: William M. Perry @ 1999-03-17 18:29 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2110 bytes --] Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk> writes: > wmperry@aventail.com (William M. Perry) writes: > > > Emacs/W3 is probably going to die very soon, due to lack of time and > > interest on my part. > > Arrgghh! It has just gotten useful. The way w3 displays text/html > (after turning off all features) in Gnus means that it almost doesn't > bother me anymore. I also use it for following links in Gnus articles. I agree that the integration with Gnus kicks ass, but there is no way that I am going to bother implementing some of the stupid shit coming out of the W3C (CSS2 + CSS3). I think a few things need to happen: 1) URL loading gets completely separated. This is mostly done. It could do with more of a rewrite to be even more asynch though. 2) XML parser as a c-level plugin or using the current external program + xml.el that I have attached. 3) A semi-minimal CSS2 implementation that would be enough to render simple XML documents and tables correctly. 4) Perhaps use DSSSL in light of the stupid microsoft patent claiming to cover CSS. 5) More people than me and Thierry doing substantial work. The current HTML parser and display engine could then suffer from bitrot and not many people would care. Between work, family, and trying to have more of a life, I just don't have the time to devote to Emacs/W3 any more. I'm going to talk to hrvoje, steve, et al about some of this breakout and work while I am in japan. I'll likely draft something that goes out to w3-beta and w3-dev as a plea for help on the plan outlined above on the plane ride over. If only I could convince Aventail to pay me to write elisp instead of (shudder) C/C++.[1] > Netscape is still used as the "stand-alone" browser, for reading > /. and comics. More sites tend more and more to be unusable without javascript and other stupid shit. Truly depressing. I avoid the web like the plague it has become. :) -Bill P. [1] I did at one point have a pretty kick-ass Emacs interface to our server config file that we actually sent to some customers that wanted a TTY version of the config tool. :) [-- Attachment #2: sample expat-based xml->elisp parser --] [-- Type: text/plain, Size: 4349 bytes --] /* The contents of this file are subject to the Mozilla Public License Version 1.0 (the "License"); you may not use this file except in compliance with the License. You may obtain a copy of the License at http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/ Software distributed under the License is distributed on an "AS IS" basis, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, either express or implied. See the License for the specific language governing rights and limitations under the License. The Original Code is expat. The Initial Developer of the Original Code is James Clark. Portions created by James Clark are Copyright (C) 1998 James Clark. All Rights Reserved. Contributor(s): */ #include "xmlparse.h" #include <stdio.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include <stddef.h> #include <string.h> #include <fcntl.h> #ifdef _MSC_VER #include <io.h> #endif #ifndef O_BINARY #ifdef _O_BINARY #define O_BINARY _O_BINARY #else #define O_BINARY 0 #endif #endif #ifdef _MSC_VER #include <crtdbg.h> #endif #ifdef _DEBUG #define READ_SIZE 16 #else #define READ_SIZE (1024*8) #endif static void characterData(void *userData, const char *s, int len) { FILE *fp = userData; putc('"',fp); for (; len > 0; --len, ++s) { putc(*s,fp); } putc('"',fp); } /* Lexicographically comparing UTF-8 encoded attribute values, is equivalent to lexicographically comparing based on the character number. */ static int attcmp(const void *att1, const void *att2) { return strcmp(*(const char **)att1, *(const char **)att2); } static void startElement(void *userData, const char *name, const char **atts) { int nAtts; const char **p; FILE *fp = userData; putc('\n',fp); putc('(', fp); fputs(name, fp); putc('\n',fp); p = atts; while (*p) ++p; nAtts = (p - atts) >> 1; if (nAtts > 1) qsort((void *)atts, nAtts, sizeof(char *) * 2, attcmp); putc('(',fp); putc('\n',fp); while (*atts) { putc('(', fp); fputs(*atts++, fp); /* attribute */ fputs(" . ",fp); characterData(userData, *atts, strlen(*atts)); fputs(")\n",fp); atts++; } putc(')',fp); } static void endElement(void *userData, const char *name) { FILE *fp = userData; fputs("\n); close tag ",fp); fputs(name, fp); putc('\n', fp); } static void processingInstruction(void *userData, const char *target, const char *data) { FILE *fp = userData; fprintf(fp, "<?%s %s?>", target, data); } static void reportError(XML_Parser parser, const char *filename) { int code = XML_GetErrorCode(parser); const char *message = XML_ErrorString(code); if (message) fprintf(stdout, "%s:%d:%ld: %s\n", filename, XML_GetErrorLineNumber(parser), XML_GetErrorColumnNumber(parser), message); else fprintf(stderr, "%s: (unknown message %d)\n", filename, code); } static int processStream(const char *filename, XML_Parser parser) { int fd; if (!strcmp(filename,"-")) fd = fileno(stdin); else fd = open(filename, O_BINARY|O_RDONLY); if (fd < 0) { perror(filename); return 0; } for (;;) { int nread; char *buf = XML_GetBuffer(parser, READ_SIZE); if (!buf) { close(fd); fprintf(stderr, "%s: out of memory\n", filename); return 0; } nread = read(fd, buf, READ_SIZE); if (nread < 0) { perror(filename); close(fd); return 0; } if (!XML_ParseBuffer(parser, nread, nread == 0)) { reportError(parser, filename); close(fd); return 0; } if (nread == 0) { close(fd); break;; } } return 1; } static void usage(const char *prog) { fprintf(stderr, "usage: %s [-e encoding] file ...\n", prog); exit(1); } int main(int argc, char **argv) { int i; const char *encoding = NULL; #ifdef _MSC_VER _CrtSetDbgFlag(_CRTDBG_ALLOC_MEM_DF|_CRTDBG_LEAK_CHECK_DF); #endif if (argc < 2) usage(argv[0]); for (i = 1; i < argc; i++) { if ((argv[i][0] == '-') && argv[i][1]) { switch (argv[i][1]) { case 'e': encoding = argv[++i]; break; default: usage(argv[0]); break; } } else { FILE *fp = NULL; char *outName = 0; int result; XML_Parser parser = XML_ParserCreate(encoding); fp = stdout; XML_SetUserData(parser, fp); XML_SetElementHandler(parser, startElement, endElement); XML_SetCharacterDataHandler(parser, characterData); XML_SetProcessingInstructionHandler(parser, processingInstruction); result = processStream(argv[i], parser); XML_ParserFree(parser); } } return 0; } ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-17 16:06 ` Lee Willis 1999-03-17 16:29 ` Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-03-18 0:10 ` Norman Walsh 1999-03-18 9:03 ` William M. Perry 1999-03-28 15:02 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Norman Walsh @ 1999-03-18 0:10 UTC (permalink / raw) | Seems cruel, but I can see both sides of the argument. Personally I like | the way X-Face:s are included in the message since I don't really want | Gnus to go and get an image off the web everytime I open a message, but | I can also see how it would be nice in some cases. I'd expect gnus to cache them locally, so you only had to go out and get new ones. Cheers, norm -- Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | My problems start when the smarter http://nwalsh.com/ | bears and the dumber visitors | intersect.--Steve Thompson, | wildlife biologist at Yosemite | National Park ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-18 0:10 ` Norman Walsh @ 1999-03-18 9:03 ` William M. Perry 1999-03-18 11:07 ` Robert Bihlmeyer 1999-03-28 15:02 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: William M. Perry @ 1999-03-18 9:03 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding But these things can tend to change... you would need to make sure your cache was not stale. Either honoring the 'Expires' header in HTTP, or a 'keep for n days minimum' kind of thing. -bp Norman Walsh wrote: > | Seems cruel, but I can see both sides of the argument. Personally I like > | the way X-Face:s are included in the message since I don't really want > | Gnus to go and get an image off the web everytime I open a message, but > | I can also see how it would be nice in some cases. > > I'd expect gnus to cache them locally, so you only had to go out and get > new ones. > > Cheers, > norm > -- > Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> | My problems start when the smarter > http://nwalsh.com/ | bears and the dumber visitors > | intersect.--Steve Thompson, > | wildlife biologist at Yosemite > | National Park ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-18 9:03 ` William M. Perry @ 1999-03-18 11:07 ` Robert Bihlmeyer 1999-03-18 12:56 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-03-19 14:03 ` Gerald Preissler 0 siblings, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Robert Bihlmeyer @ 1999-03-18 11:07 UTC (permalink / raw) Hi, >>>>> On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 04:03:37 -0500 >>>>> "William M. Perry" <wmperry@aventail.com> said: Bill> But these things can tend to change... you would need to make Bill> sure your cache was not stale. Hmm, the X-Faces of people here on ding, haven't changed for aeons. It would be more than enough to check once a month. No, no, stopit! Let's just put into the standard that you should not reuse face URLs, i.e. use <http://.../bla-1.jpg> if bla.jpg is outdated. Or put a version number, timestamp, whatever in front of the URL. Robbe -- Robert Bihlmeyer reads: Deutsch, English, MIME, Latin-1, NO SPAM! <robbe@orcus.priv.at> <http://stud2.tuwien.ac.at/~e9426626/sig.html> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-18 11:07 ` Robert Bihlmeyer @ 1999-03-18 12:56 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-03-18 13:16 ` David Kågedal 1999-03-19 14:03 ` Gerald Preissler 1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-03-18 12:56 UTC (permalink / raw) Robert Bihlmeyer <e9426626@stud2.tuwien.ac.at> writes: > Hi, > > >>>>> On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 04:03:37 -0500 > >>>>> "William M. Perry" <wmperry@aventail.com> said: > > Bill> But these things can tend to change... you would need to make > Bill> sure your cache was not stale. > > Hmm, the X-Faces of people here on ding, haven't changed for aeons. It > would be more than enough to check once a month. Whatever. A friend of mine has five or ten X-Faces, which he changes according to the nature of the message he's writing. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-18 12:56 ` Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-03-18 13:16 ` David Kågedal 1999-03-18 14:59 ` Hrvoje Niksic 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: David Kågedal @ 1999-03-18 13:16 UTC (permalink / raw) Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > Robert Bihlmeyer <e9426626@stud2.tuwien.ac.at> writes: > > > Hi, > > > > >>>>> On Thu, 18 Mar 1999 04:03:37 -0500 > > >>>>> "William M. Perry" <wmperry@aventail.com> said: > > > > Bill> But these things can tend to change... you would need to make > > Bill> sure your cache was not stale. > > > > Hmm, the X-Faces of people here on ding, haven't changed for aeons. It > > would be more than enough to check once a month. > > Whatever. A friend of mine has five or ten X-Faces, which he changes > according to the nature of the message he's writing. So if we changed to use URLs instead he would alternate between different URLs, which would not cause any caching problems. -- David Kågedal <davidk@lysator.liu.se> http://www.lysator.liu.se/~davidk/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-18 13:16 ` David Kågedal @ 1999-03-18 14:59 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-03-18 15:19 ` Didier Verna 1999-03-18 19:32 ` Zlatko Calusic 0 siblings, 2 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-03-18 14:59 UTC (permalink / raw) davidk@lysator.liu.se (David Kĺgedal) writes: > > Whatever. A friend of mine has five or ten X-Faces, which he > > changes according to the nature of the message he's writing. > > So if we changed to use URLs instead he would alternate between > different URLs, which would not cause any caching problems. No, he would likely still use the X-Faces, as would I. :-) (And I think I'd hate my mail reader to fetch things from the web when I'm reading mail, but I guess it's a matter of taste.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-18 14:59 ` Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-03-18 15:19 ` Didier Verna 1999-03-18 19:32 ` Kim-Minh Kaplan 1999-03-18 19:32 ` Zlatko Calusic 1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Didier Verna @ 1999-03-18 15:19 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Hrvoje Niksic writes: Hrvoje> (And I think I'd hate my mail reader to fetch things from the web when Hrvoje> I'm reading mail, but I guess it's a matter of taste.) It really depends on the connection you have. For instance, I retrieve and display picons from the network. Things usually go rather fast for me. Only sometimes. around 17h00, the connection might slow down and it becomes annoying, so I eventually turn off the picons. Another thing to consider is that my XEmacs sessions usually lasts for several weeks, so I end up having many of the picons in the cache (and no more swap ;-). -- / / _ _ Didier Verna http://www.inf.enst.fr/~verna/ - / / - / / /_/ / E.N.S.T. INF C201.1 mailto:verna@inf.enst.fr /_/ / /_/ / /__ / 46 rue Barrault Tel. (33) 01 45 81 73 46 75634 Paris cedex 13 Fax. (33) 01 45 81 31 19 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-18 15:19 ` Didier Verna @ 1999-03-18 19:32 ` Kim-Minh Kaplan 1999-03-19 9:18 ` Didier Verna 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Kim-Minh Kaplan @ 1999-03-18 19:32 UTC (permalink / raw) Didier Verna writes: > I retrieve and display picons from the network. Things usually go > rather fast for me. Only sometimes. around 17h00, the connection > might slow down and it becomes annoying Mmm, that's strange: picons are supposed to be fetched as a background job. It should not interfer with your ability to read messages. Or is it just the picons that appear while you are reading that annoy you ? Kim-Minh. . ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-18 19:32 ` Kim-Minh Kaplan @ 1999-03-19 9:18 ` Didier Verna 1999-03-19 20:10 ` Kim-Minh Kaplan 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Didier Verna @ 1999-03-19 9:18 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Kim-Minh Kaplan writes: Kim-Minh> Didier Verna writes: >> I retrieve and display picons from the network. Things usually go rather >> fast for me. Only sometimes. around 17h00, the connection might slow down >> and it becomes annoying Kim-Minh> Mmm, that's strange: picons are supposed to be fetched as a Kim-Minh> background job. It should not interfer with your ability to read Kim-Minh> messages. Or is it just the picons that appear while you are reading Kim-Minh> that annoy you ? Picons appearing while I'm reading is sometimes annoying because it changes the buffer layout. But I think there are still bugs in the retrieving routines. Sometimes for instance, gnus seems to wait for the first picon to be retrieved, and then subsequent fetches are done in the background. I'm not sure though, these days, I don't have time to investigate when the problem occurs. -- / / _ _ Didier Verna http://www.inf.enst.fr/~verna/ - / / - / / /_/ / E.N.S.T. INF C201.1 mailto:verna@inf.enst.fr /_/ / /_/ / /__ / 46 rue Barrault Tel. (33) 01 45 81 73 46 75634 Paris cedex 13 Fax. (33) 01 45 81 31 19 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-19 9:18 ` Didier Verna @ 1999-03-19 20:10 ` Kim-Minh Kaplan 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Kim-Minh Kaplan @ 1999-03-19 20:10 UTC (permalink / raw) Didier Verna writes: > Sometimes for instance, gnus seems to wait for the first picon to be > retrieved, and then subsequent fetches are done in the background. Mmm, may be putting a '(sit-for 0)' in `gnus-picons-url-retrieve' before the call to `url-retrieve' help aleviate this problem ? Kim-Minh. . ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-18 14:59 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-03-18 15:19 ` Didier Verna @ 1999-03-18 19:32 ` Zlatko Calusic 1 sibling, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Zlatko Calusic @ 1999-03-18 19:32 UTC (permalink / raw) Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> writes: > davidk@lysator.liu.se (David Kĺgedal) writes: > > > > Whatever. A friend of mine has five or ten X-Faces, which he > > > changes according to the nature of the message he's writing. > > > > So if we changed to use URLs instead he would alternate between > > different URLs, which would not cause any caching problems. > > No, he would likely still use the X-Faces, as would I. :-) > > (And I think I'd hate my mail reader to fetch things from the web when > I'm reading mail, but I guess it's a matter of taste.) > Yes, matter of taste definitely, but I really can't recall anybody who would be willing to wait indefinite time just to get small b/w picture, before reading his mail. And I'm speaking of people who actually like x-faces, and use them (like me). I wait for web pages, I wait for articles from the slow news server, I wait for files to come when FTP-ing, but I DON'T want to wait to read my email comfortably. Email is asynchronous in its nature, and I believe it should stay that way. So, I wan't to see those entertaining small pictures, and I want to see them *right away*! :) Few lines in (not) every article is small price to pay for that. -- Zlatko ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-18 11:07 ` Robert Bihlmeyer 1999-03-18 12:56 ` Hrvoje Niksic @ 1999-03-19 14:03 ` Gerald Preissler 1 sibling, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: Gerald Preissler @ 1999-03-19 14:03 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: ding Robert Bihlmeyer <e9426626@stud2.tuwien.ac.at> writes: > No, no, stopit! Let's just put into the standard that you should not > reuse face URLs, i.e. use <http://.../bla-1.jpg> if bla.jpg is > outdated. Or put a version number, timestamp, whatever in front of the > URL. Why not include some kind of hash-code of the actual pic in the header. That way you can check that the pic you have is not stale. just my DM 0.02 Jerry -- ||| ... and now for something completely different ... o o --m--!--m-- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-18 0:10 ` Norman Walsh 1999-03-18 9:03 ` William M. Perry @ 1999-03-28 15:02 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-03-29 3:41 ` François Pinard 1 sibling, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-03-28 15:02 UTC (permalink / raw) Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com> writes: > | Seems cruel, but I can see both sides of the argument. Personally I like > | the way X-Face:s are included in the message since I don't really want > | Gnus to go and get an image off the web everytime I open a message, but > | I can also see how it would be nice in some cases. > > I'd expect gnus to cache them locally, so you only had to go out and get > new ones. Anyway, since if an RFC is written, the name of the header would change from X-Face to Face, perhaps the format could be extended beyond just having an X-Face Face in there. Er. Uhm. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-28 15:02 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-03-29 3:41 ` François Pinard 1999-04-02 13:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: François Pinard @ 1999-03-29 3:41 UTC (permalink / raw) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> writes: > Anyway, since if an RFC is written, the name of the header would change > from X-Face to Face, perhaps the format could be extended beyond just > having an X-Face Face in there. Er. Uhm. If a revision is going to happen in that area, could we also have `sound' faces? Maybe X-Hello or Hello? So, when receiving a messages from Lars, one could hear his voice saying "Lars Mgng'brtsn' here" :-). -- François Pinard mailto:pinard@iro.umontreal.ca Join the free Translation Project! http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-03-29 3:41 ` François Pinard @ 1999-04-02 13:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-04-02 15:50 ` François Pinard 0 siblings, 1 reply; 37+ messages in thread From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-04-02 13:56 UTC (permalink / raw) François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes: > If a revision is going to happen in that area, could we also have `sound' > faces? Maybe X-Hello or Hello? So, when receiving a messages from Lars, > one could hear his voice saying "Lars Mgng'brtsn' here" :-). I don't think the world is quite ready for that one. :-) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) larsi@gnus.org * Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
* Re: I wanna write an RFC 1999-04-02 13:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen @ 1999-04-02 15:50 ` François Pinard 0 siblings, 0 replies; 37+ messages in thread From: François Pinard @ 1999-04-02 15:50 UTC (permalink / raw) Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> écrit: > François Pinard <pinard@iro.umontreal.ca> writes: > > If a revision is going to happen in that area, could we also have `sound' > > faces? Maybe X-Hello or Hello? So, when receiving a messages from Lars, > > one could hear his voice saying "Lars Mgng'brtsn' here" :-). > I don't think the world is quite ready for that one. :-) You do not feel like pushing on the world a bit? Writing an RFC might be a proper way to define how to do a new thing which many people should do at once for inter-operability, and I guess I would like that the world become as ready for little greeting sounds than it is for little greeting faces. Since X-Face and X-Hello might well use similar encoding and presentation in message headers, it looks to me like a unique opportunity to address both problems at once, which we should try to not miss if it can be done... -- François Pinard mailto:pinard@iro.umontreal.ca Join the free Translation Project! http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~pinard ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 37+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~1999-04-02 15:50 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 37+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 1999-03-14 16:44 I wanna write an RFC Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-03-15 15:14 ` Jari Aalto+list.ding 1999-03-16 1:18 ` David Hedbor 1999-03-16 7:29 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-03-16 22:42 ` David Hedbor 1999-03-17 12:18 ` David Kågedal 1999-03-17 12:24 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-03-28 14:59 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-03-17 1:25 ` Norman Walsh 1999-03-17 15:42 ` Laura Conrad 1999-03-17 16:06 ` Lee Willis 1999-03-17 16:29 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-03-17 16:35 ` Didier Verna 1999-03-17 17:15 ` William M. Perry 1999-03-17 17:43 ` Per Abrahamsen 1999-03-17 16:44 ` François Pinard 1999-03-17 18:01 ` Harry Putnam 1999-03-17 18:21 ` William M. Perry 1999-03-18 17:27 ` Harry Putnam 1999-03-17 18:30 ` Per Abrahamsen 1999-03-17 18:29 ` William M. Perry 1999-03-18 0:10 ` Norman Walsh 1999-03-18 9:03 ` William M. Perry 1999-03-18 11:07 ` Robert Bihlmeyer 1999-03-18 12:56 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-03-18 13:16 ` David Kågedal 1999-03-18 14:59 ` Hrvoje Niksic 1999-03-18 15:19 ` Didier Verna 1999-03-18 19:32 ` Kim-Minh Kaplan 1999-03-19 9:18 ` Didier Verna 1999-03-19 20:10 ` Kim-Minh Kaplan 1999-03-18 19:32 ` Zlatko Calusic 1999-03-19 14:03 ` Gerald Preissler 1999-03-28 15:02 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-03-29 3:41 ` François Pinard 1999-04-02 13:56 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen 1999-04-02 15:50 ` François Pinard
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for NNTP newsgroup(s).