From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/68509 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Abandoning the concept of groups as a storage medium? Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:27:41 -0500 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <86zldyhrgy.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1241119404 20285 80.91.229.12 (30 Apr 2009 19:23:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 19:23:24 +0000 (UTC) To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M16942@lists.math.uh.edu Thu Apr 30 21:23:14 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from util0.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.18]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Lzbqf-0006A3-WA for ding-account@gmane.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:23:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by util0.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LzbqS-0004FO-8R; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:22:56 -0500 Original-Received: from mx1.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.32]) by util0.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LzbqQ-0004Em-92 for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:22:54 -0500 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx1.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1LzbqN-0007FJ-DI for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:22:54 -0500 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org ([80.91.229.2] helo=ciao.gmane.org) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 1Lzbqo-0005qz-00 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:23:18 +0200 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1LzbqK-0004ZS-Vo for ding@gnus.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 19:22:49 +0000 Original-Received: from 38.98.147.130 ([38.98.147.130]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 19:22:48 +0000 Original-Received: from tzz by 38.98.147.130 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2009 19:22:48 +0000 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 61 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.98.147.130 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6;d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/23.0.92 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:yDOed/jdLrP56r+V03ilxjCc6Xs= X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Spam-Report: SpamAssassin (3.2.5 2008-06-10) analysis follows Bayesian score: 0.0000 Ham tokens: 0.000-790--3712h-0s--0d--H*UA:Emacs, 0.000-540--2536h-0s--0d--H*M:fsf, 0.000-527--2477h-0s--0d--H*u:Emacs, 0.000-519--2441h-0s--0d--H*u:Gnus, 0.000-519--2441h-0s--0d--H*UA:Gnus Spam tokens: 0.983-3426--371h-24354s--0d--H*RT:sk:postmas, 0.983-3426--371h-24354s--0d--HX-Spam-Relays-Internal:sk:postmas, 0.981-3430--420h-24695s--0d--HX-Envelope-From:sk:postmas, 0.898-3455--5651h-58417s--0d--HX-Spam-Relays-External:quimby.gnus.org, 0.898-3455--5651h-58417s--0d--H*RU:quimby.gnus.org Autolearn status: no 2.0 RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET RBL: Received via a relay in bl.spamcop.net [Blocked - see ] 1.0 RCVD_IN_PSBL RBL: Received via a relay in PSBL [38.98.147.130 listed in psbl.surriel.com] -1.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [80.91.229.2 listed in list.dnswl.org] 2.1 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO -2.6 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] -0.7 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list List-ID: Precedence: bulk X-Spam-Report: 7.0 points; * 0.0 RCVD_BY_IP Received by mail server with no name * 4.0 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO * 3.0 RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET RBL: Received via a relay in bl.spamcop.net * [Blocked - see ] Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:68509 Archived-At: On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:56:39 +0200 David Engster wrote: DE> Jan Rychter writes: >> I want to be able to set flags and tags on *any* E-mail message >> *anywhere*, not just in the "real group it belongs to". I don't want >> my "groups" to have anything to do with the way my messages are >> stored. E-mail should be stored in a key/value store with metadata >> copied and indexed separately. >> >> The problem I see with Gnus is that it is designed around a central >> concept of a mail backend which exposes groups. DE> Yes, but I don't see this as a restriction for what you would like to DE> have. Gnus can handle "dynamic" groups, where the contents changes all DE> the time, although it requires a lot of work to get right. As you say, DE> nnmairix comes pretty close, and it strictly works with the Gnus group DE> back end API. My main problem with maintaining nnmairix is that the back DE> ends behave differently, especially when it comes to marks and unread DE> count. The big problem I see is that Gnus can't build groups asynchronously. Emacs Lisp itself is the impediment here. >> The registry, if I understand correctly, is a workaround for some of >> the problems people encountered with this approach. >> >> Is there any way to achieve what I want with Gnus? Is anybody working on >> something of the kind? What would be the possible approaches? DE> We just had this discussion, and Ted raised some interesting points DE> regarding the registry and how it could be extended, and I agree with DE> him. DE> I think the registry should save all important headers of a message, and DE> maybe also some MIME information, like attachment names. Of course, as DE> Ted also said, this information can't be saved anymore in plain text DE> files like gnus.registry.eld, but needs some kind of external database DE> back end. DE> We could then add a back end which can create virtual groups based on DE> registry information. One could extend nnir to do that, but I'd vote for DE> creating a completely new one. nnregistry? group list: dynamic based on tags (labels) defined by user article list in group: generated on entry with a tag search article retrieve: uses the original article backend I'm definitely not going to get to it anytime soon, but if anyone else feels adventurous, I'll help out any way I can. DE> However, full text search is another matter entirely. This simply cannot DE> be done in Emacs Lisp. The index necessary for good search performance would be huge, but easy to store in a database (on a server, on IMAP, whatever). It's easy to parallelize these searches (especially with IMAP as the backend). So there's some hope. Ted