From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 X-Msuck: nntp://news.gmane.io/gmane.emacs.gnus.general/76357 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ted Zlatanov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.general Subject: Re: Position of point in reply-with-original Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2011 12:25:45 -0600 Organization: =?utf-8?B?0KLQtdC+0LTQvtGAINCX0LvQsNGC0LDQvdC+0LI=?= @ Cienfuegos Message-ID: <871v3nirme.fsf@lifelogs.com> References: <87tyglxjja.fsf@gmail.com> <87r5bpgk6p.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87k4hhniw6.fsf@gmail.com> <87ipx1yqhz.fsf@topper.koldfront.dk> <87pqr8946o.fsf@gmail.com> <87pqr8py5g.fsf@topper.koldfront.dk> <87ipx07nws.fsf@gmail.com> <87d3n8loqz.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87vd10kx1a.fsf@gnus.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1296844005 4846 80.91.229.12 (4 Feb 2011 18:26:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2011 18:26:45 +0000 (UTC) To: ding@gnus.org Original-X-From: ding-owner+M24710@lists.math.uh.edu Fri Feb 04 19:26:41 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ding-account@gmane.org Original-Received: from util0.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.18]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PlQMW-0001a6-VT for ding-account@gmane.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 19:26:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by util0.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PlQMF-0004P9-R1; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 12:26:11 -0600 Original-Received: from mx2.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.33]) by util0.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1PlQME-0004Oz-Kp for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 12:26:10 -0600 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.231.51]) by mx2.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PlQMA-0005v0-GA for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 12:26:10 -0600 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PlQM9-0003xR-AO for ding@gnus.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 19:26:05 +0100 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PlQM3-0001H1-Ug for ding@gnus.org; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 19:26:00 +0100 Original-Received: from 38.98.147.130 ([38.98.147.130]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 19:25:59 +0100 Original-Received: from tzz by 38.98.147.130 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 04 Feb 2011 19:25:59 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 88 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.98.147.130 X-Face: bd.DQ~'29fIs`T_%O%C\g%6jW)yi[zuz6;d4V0`@y-~$#3P_Ng{@m+e4o<4P'#(_GJQ%TT= D}[Ep*b!\e,fBZ'j_+#"Ps?s2!4H2-Y"sx" User-Agent: Gnus/5.110011 (No Gnus v0.11) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:YhZJs2C4wc5oR8mQAeF1FTkowKM= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) List-ID: Precedence: bulk Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.gnus.general:76357 Archived-At: On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 00:45:53 -0800 Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: LI> Ted Zlatanov writes: >> I agree with the defvar -> defcustom change. >> >> I think the top-posting setup should be a little more involved, >> mirroring Outlook somewhat. This is what I use (I got help from the >> Gnus mailing list when I set it up): >> >> ;; outlooky >> (defun sc-style-outlook () >> (interactive) >> (setq >> message-cite-function 'message-cite-original >> message-citation-line-function 'message-insert-formatted-citation-line >> message-cite-reply-above 'is-evil >> message-yank-prefix "" >> message-yank-cited-prefix "" >> message-yank-empty-prefix "" >> message-citation-line-format >> "\n\n-----------------------\nOn %a, %b %d %Y, %N wrote:\n")) LI> Given that this much is needed to get a satisfactory top posting format, LI> I don't think making the defvar->defcustom change would help much. LI> Perhaps there should be a new meta-ish variable, say LI> (defcustom message-cite-style nil LI> "The overall style to be used when yanking cited text. LI> Values are either `traditional' (cited text first), LI> `top-post' (cited text at the bottom), or nil (don't override the LI> individual message variables)." LI> :version "24.1" LI> :group 'message-various LI> :type '(choice (const :tag "None" :value nil) LI> (const :tag "Traditional" :value traditional) LI> (const :tag "Top-post" :value top-post))) LI> This would bind the variables you mention above if set to `traditional' LI> or `top-post'. I agree. This would be useful for everyone using Emacs, not just Gnus users. Of course that means many will complain, but we'll just tell them Gnus is now supported by Microsoft donations and being rewritten in C#. Which is, of course, all true. Hail the Gnus Cabal. On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 10:38:13 +0100 Antoine Levitt wrote: AL> I don't necessarily agree. My ideal setup would be just AL> message-cite-reply-above to t. The other variables are a matter of AL> preference, and shouldn't be tied to the position of point after a AL> reply. We can make a choice 'top-post-traditional-quotes that reflects your preference. But I already said I'm in favor of changing the defvar to a defcustom for `message-cite-reply-above', which is what you're asking for. AL> Then there could be "presets" to mimic the behaviour of various other AL> clients. I'm not sure they should be as variables, that'd be confusing AL> as to the behaviour of setting both the preset and the individual AL> setting. What about functions that set the variables in a buffer-local AL> fashion and would be triggered by gnus-posting-styles? I think that's even more confusing, personally. On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 10:21:43 +0100 pmlists@free.fr (Peter Münster) wrote: PM> And the remaining 10% (people like Ted), do top-posting at work, because PM> they believe, that they need to conform to some "standard". My concern is really about aesthetics and communication. I hate my messages to be mangled by Outlook and misinterpreted more than I hate top-posting. PM> There are many other examples, where 90% of the people are doing the PM> "- arguably - wrong thing" ... PM> So question the "standard"! PM> Don't conform to the "standard" when you see, that's it's the "arguably PM> wrong thing"! ;) Personally, I'm with the Apathy Coalition. "Not Our Problem" and "Join Us. Or Don't. Whatever." are our mottos. (yes, I have the T-shirt: http://shirt.woot.com/Derby/Entry.aspx?id=37083) Ted