From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.4 (2020-01-24) on inbox.vuxu.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_INVALID,DKIM_SIGNED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN, FREEMAIL_FROM,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=3.4.4 Received: from mx1.math.uh.edu (mx1.math.uh.edu [129.7.128.32]) by inbox.vuxu.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B31CB21167 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2024 21:47:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from lists1.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.208]) by mx1.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.97.1) (envelope-from ) id 1s0o0r-00000009CFG-3qTU for ml@inbox.vuxu.org; Sat, 27 Apr 2024 14:47:10 -0500 Received: from lists1.math.uh.edu ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.math.uh.edu) by lists1.math.uh.edu with smtp (Exim 4.97.1) (envelope-from ) id 1s0o0n-00000003uV8-2dYI for ml@inbox.vuxu.org; Sat, 27 Apr 2024 14:47:05 -0500 Received: from mx1.math.uh.edu ([129.7.128.32]) by lists1.math.uh.edu with esmtp (Exim 4.97.1) (envelope-from ) id 1s0o0k-00000003uUy-3csx for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Sat, 27 Apr 2024 14:47:02 -0500 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]) by mx1.math.uh.edu with esmtps (TLS1.3) tls TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.97.1) (envelope-from ) id 1s0o0g-00000009CEW-0wdB for ding@lists.math.uh.edu; Sat, 27 Apr 2024 14:47:02 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:References:Message-ID:Date:Subject: From:To:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=OzyzN8ldV1q78cEr7S4KuXP/ogdYK7IqfdJIbvMl7Ww=; b=vKQN16ge57c04LxUAozswQnr45 tSW4ZXTrhG61KlU/0ljfWTMUaAptIILlrr8hv5E2+ccwDsxglZm0IIM+V26178kF8zH/qpKvTSM1+ TIXFBuftuoG/KWrk8lBPp5+tdnaCndpm/3wid4nr7dFdmAn/TAxiTJqizJbipT4mldRw=; Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtps (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1s0o0Z-00011u-Cn for ding@gnus.org; Sat, 27 Apr 2024 21:46:53 +0200 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1s0o0Y-00046W-5B for ding@gnus.org; Sat, 27 Apr 2024 21:46:50 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: ding@gnus.org From: Xiyue Deng Subject: Re: Gnus sometimes reports new messages but not showing them on IMAP server Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2024 12:46:42 -0700 Message-ID: <874jbmk2ql.fsf@debian-hx90.lan> References: <87h6g7mm8r.fsf@debian-hx90.lan> <878r1blqcg.fsf@uwo.ca> <87ttjx55ey.fsf@uwo.ca> <875xwalmf4.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87wmoqjf92.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cancel-Lock: sha1:wIDWDSJ2wI07fKcwXlI8tgg8r10= List-ID: Precedence: bulk Eric Abrahamsen writes: > Greg Troxel writes: > >> Arash Esbati writes: >> >>>> I've focused on figuring out why the active number goes wrong, but in >>>> the interest of pragmatism it might be better just to make sure that >>>> nnimap always does the equivalent of "M-g" at Gnus startup. >>> >>> That might be a good compromise. >> >> Agreed. It seems obvious (said knowing that's dangerous) that on >> starting up the program, it's best not to rely on state that could be >> wrong. That's tricky, because mail programs keep messages and don't >> refetch them, but relying on counts of unread seems very trouble prone, >> vs "I have this message body and the timestamp matches so I won't fetch >> it." >> >> I think it would also be good to separate >> >> check for new >> >> get all the messages that are there >> >> really rescan and don't believe state >> >> in terms of being much louder about the differences. I have the >> impression that the assembled gnususers here are at least somewhat hazy >> on those boundaries. At least I am. > > I think this is an artifact of Gnus starting out as a newsreader, and > adding email capability later. In a NNTP context, the read/unread > message count is entirely private to your local machine, and something > you can manipulate at will. In an IMAP context, it's very much a part of > multi-machine state. Gnus should always defer to the remote server, > particularly at start up. I do wish I knew where the bug was coming > from, though. > > > This makes much sense. I'll try M-g the next time this happens. Thanks everyone! Also I would expect the equivalent of M-g to happen on startup so that there are less surprises. -- Xiyue Deng